Old blue let out a death rattle tonight... please help

[oldblue2]

It's pretty cold here in seattle today, like below freezing. And our old 84 subaru GL sw started up a little rough when i first went to drive it tonight, so i drove it enough to get the temps up a bit, not all the way to normal but up there about a quarter to a third of the way. I then came and parked at the bank, and as i turned off the car it sputtered to a stop like it usually does, and then kept going for about 20 seconds with very slow weak "cough" ... pause... "cough" ...pause... "cough" ... etc. I then tried to start it up but got nothing. I checked the fluid levels, they all checked out, i looked at the carb to see if it was iced over or something but didnt see anything (don't know alot about carbs though) and then tried it again, still nothing, it would crank and crank but not turn over. So i called AAA and waited. Just before they got there I tried it again and this time it cranked, and cranked, then cranked faster and faster and faster, and then stumbled at about 200 rpm before i finally was able to finess it to a steady idle with the throttle. Now I have no idea what happened and am thinking it has to do with either the carb, but am not sure. Sorry bout having to read this book, but it's just not been my night with this car (somebody came and gave me a ticket while i was sitting right next to old blue!) Thanks.

[85Sub4WD]

I will admit that it does sound like the carb. when it "chugged" after you cut it off, I had a LOT of problems with that on my car when it was carb. because the "anti-dieseling" solenoid was lousy in design, and did not function correctly. When you say that you cranked, but it did not turn over, I assume you meant it did not fire??? If it never fired, that means that you have an ignition problem. Check the distribuitor cap and rotor. Copper is best for both as aluminum is a lousy conductor. Also check your ignition coil and make sure that it is strong. If it coughed while trying to start, the problem is fuel. Make SURE that you pump the gas while cranking those old carb Subs, if it is 30 degrees or less, mine would not start without 3 pumps before cranking. If you did all of this, it may very well be time for a new/rebuilt carb. If you are mechanically/electrically inclined, convert to SPFI (yes it is possible on EA-81). If your carb is more than five years old, it may be dead. Look for carbon buildup in the barrels, that is an indidcation of wear, particularly around the throttle valves. If it chugged for 20 seconds then that means that there is fuel dripping into the barrel and detonating because of the hot engine (a 20 year old engine has a lot of carbon in it that will cause detonation). If you do decide to replace/rebuild your carb, make sure that a reputable person does it as Hitachi carbs are very difficult to rebuild. (Webers are much better, but I cannot convert mine because of emissions requirements where I live.) Hope this helps!

[Skip]

This time of year we see many posts

that center around this type of problem.

 

Many are due to water that has collected in the gas tank

over the warmer months.

This now enters the fuel system and

freezes in some location.

Try a can of "dry gas".

 

A can of "Seafoam" is also a good suggestion.

It will clean the carbon deposits and the fuel system.

It may take 100 miles or so to work it's "magic".

Both available at larger autoparts houses.

 

Another problem you may have is the

warm air "furnace" piping not connected or

not functioning.

 

This devise brings warm air to the carburetor to

prevent icing and other cold weather running issues.

 

It is connected to the underside end of the air cleaner

housing snorkel and is controlled by a vacuum motor

diaphragm on top of the snorkel. A flexible pipe

connects this to the exhaust "furnace" coupling.

 

To see if it working look into the end of the snorkel

a watch for a flap to rise when the engine is started cold.

If the flap does not rise to direct the air flow,

check the vacuum lines to the motor and the

thermo valve which controls the vacuum.

 

The "dieseling" you experienced could have been caused by

a frozen ADS (anti diesel solenoid).

If it happens again, turn the engine back on and then

turn it off while in gear with the brake pedal depressed.

This dieseling is not good for a gas engine.

 

Good luck

Hope this helps and

Welcome to the good ship USMB

[oldblue2]

Thanks for the input guys. It definately sounds like dieseling. Today it started up no problem. But still everytime it is shut off it chugs for like a second till it completely comes to a stop. Only last night has it ever done that long extended chugging for like 20 seconds. I always pump the pedal two or three times before starting it, and have never really had problems with it starting. Now the car only cost 350 so spending alot on a rebuilt carb doesnt seem much worth it to me (only spent 5 dollars on an alternator and 10 dollars for oil and filter so far) So what about just a used carb that somebody is selling on the boards here? Also the tank was run to almost empty the other day, and just filled with fresh gas two days ago so i dont think it's gas line freeze. Also where is the fuel filter located on these? Since it was run to empty i was affraid of maybe something clogging it up. The furnace piping seems to be working just fine. I checked that out the other day when i was adding some tranny oil. I'm curious, what effect does turning the car off with it in gear and the brake pedal depressed have?

[Skip]

I would try a can of Seafoam before writing your carb off.

 

If the empty tank did get some moisture condensation build up

where did the H20 go when you filled it? H20 density question.

 

The primary fuel filter is located by the fuel pump under the car

in front of the drivers side rear wheel.

 

Note: there is another fuel filter "looking" devise

mounted by the brake booster/master cyl.

 

This unit, although it is a filter, is called the

"vapor separator.

 

In light of this fact the primary filter is some times ignored.

 

It still sounds like your ADS is stuck open.

 

The car in gear and foot on brake will shut the car off with

out the dieseling - unless it is a manual (not mentioned)

 

if so

then slowly leave the clutch out as you turn the key off.

[oldblue2]

Yes it is a manual, forgot to mention that. I'll give that seafoam a try though, thanks.

[oldblue2]

So it happened again, not the death rattle, but the not wanting to start. It finally did in the same way in which I had to stay on the starter for a while before finally it spun fast enough that i could finess it to idle. However, after this happened(this happened at NAPA when I was getting seafoam) I drove it home and slowly poured a bit of that stuff in there, and all day now it's been starting up no problem, and idling better. I must say first impressions of this 6 dollar seafoam stuff have been pretty good. Thanks again guys, I'll see if these good results last, if not looks like I am in the market for another carb. Will an EA81 carb fit on an EA82 engine ok?

[Skip]

"EA81 carb fit on an EA82 engine ok?"

 

No. Sorry different spread on the bolt pattern.

Do you have an EA82 engine?

 

In 84 I would suspect it to be an EA81.

 

Hope you put some of the good stuff in the fuel tank

and didn't administer the entire can through the carb throat.

 

The internal parts of the carb need it most.

 

Pouring down the throat does not address these parts.

 

It is possible my original post was not clear in this department.

For this I apologize

[oldblue2]

I put a third of the bottle down the throat, but will add some to the fuel tank as well. I misspoke when I said it's an 84, it's an 85 actually. Think I'll buy some more of these seafoam stuff though for all the other cars I work on, cause it really seems to do a pretty good job on cleaning stuff on out of there.

[Snowman]

What does the temperature do throughout a normal day where you live? From your first post it sounds like it's hovering around freezing. In light of that, I would highly suspect that water is causing problems. Like Skip said, putting in new gas will not remove the water. At these temperatures, it's also likely that the new gas contained a little water, as condensation is going to happen a lot at temps right above freezing, both in your tank and in the tanks at the station. Even trace amounts of water in the fuel can wreak havoc on carbs, causing exactly what you are describing. Put in a bottle of fuel line de-icer (my personal preference is "Heet" in the yellow bottle.

 

Check the operation of the anti diesel solenoid. It screws into the side of the carb near the top and has a single wire coming from it. With the engine running, disconnect the wire. If the engine continues to run, the solenoid is either frozen open or otherwise faulty. I don't know much about these, but is it possible that it could sometimes be freezing shut and not allowing the engine to start? Skip?

 

I've never tried Seafoam, but it does sound like pretty good stuff. Another product I've had phenomenal luck with is Chevron Fuel System Cleaner (sometimes called Fuel Injector Cleaner). I've worked at a petro products distributor (gas station) for a couple of years, and that is the ONLY product we sold that we guarantee will do something.

[srepair]

I have never heard of seafoam, what is it?? I know that if you take some chevron techron (not the injector cleaner which doesn't seem to do anything) it will clean the carburator (or injectors if you have them). Just remove the secondary fuel filter near the brake master cylinder and drain it. Then with a small funnel pour 2 tablespoons of techron in and put it back together. Start and drive the vehicle. This works best if the motor is warm before starting the repair. Techron is sold in Walmarts.

 

ALWAYS use the gasline antifreeze periodically in cold weather in all cars. It is cheap insurance. Water in the gas is even worse in injected cars because of the circulation of the fuel and once the temperature drops enough it will freeze in the gas lines where no heat is present. That is even worse than in the carburator where the engine heat will melt it most of the time or in the tank where it the ice crystals will just float around and not cause troubles.