exister99 Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Trying to conjure up the collective knowledge in this community. My Car: '84 GL 1800 Wagon Just rebuilt my distributor on Sunday. Sitting in a left turn lane on Monday my Subi died. Got pushed off into a parking lot. 2 hours later it started right up. I got half way home and it died again. It hasn't started since. One thing I noticed was the alternator was very hot. I seem to be getting plenty of juice from the battery. I replaced the coil. Did a spark test with the main coil cable and no spark. So I figure it has to be my battery, or fusible links. Could it possibly be the alternator? Did a bad alternator cook my battery? Is there a procedure somewhere for replacing the regulator in my alternator? Any help is appreciated. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Does your car have the feedback carburator? I had this happen to me - it was the O2 sensor. Pull the wire going to the O2, and see how it runs - it will run without the O2, but it won't run at all with a BAD O2 - runs fine for a while, till it warms up, then dies. Do you have an ECS light on your dash? Check the computer for codes.... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 you shouldn't be getting really any juice for the alternator from the battery except to help power the field. The alternator supplies juice to the battery aka. charging it and helping maintain your luxuries (ie - radio, a/c, heater fan, etc.) So your alternator was getting hot? Hmmm maybe you should have your alternator checked by AutoZone for free. It sounds like your alternator is starting to die a bit by overcharging or somewhere in the charging system is drawing too much amperage. Check your battery cables too for amount of resistance with a DVOM. You said that you just rebuild your disty. Maybe you should check the wiring coming off of it for any shorts of some sort because if there is a short somewhere, this could be why your alternator is getting hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exister99 Posted August 20, 2003 Author Share Posted August 20, 2003 GeneralDisorder, Not sure what an ECS light is. If my O2 sensor was grounded out would it cause the no spark condition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exister99 Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 For those of you who like to read about the resolution of certain cases, here it is. Symptoms: Sudden engine death and failure to start. After being left alone for a while (hrs to days) the car starts. While in no-start mode a spark test between the primary ignition wire and engine block is negative, no spark. Cause: Ignition module in distributor was shot. The interesting symptom is the apparent regeneration of the faulty part. The ignition module is the only "electronic" part in the primary circuit. I surmise that its faulty internal parts were failing and then resetting themselves after being left alone for a while, only to eventually fail again. I would venture to say that this start/no-start cycle is indicative of a faulty ignition module. Fix: Replaced the ignition module with a used one and she started right up and stayed running. Hoping this ignition module doesn't fail too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Thanks for the synopisis For Future Reference The coil should have battery voltage on the positive terminal when the key is in the run or crank position If you have battery voltage and no spark on the coil secondary wire (read big fat one sticking out of the top), your ig mod (sometimes called an "ignitor")is toast or the wiring is knackered Just helps with the homework Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 What happens to the electronic ignition modules is they get hot, and sometimes the integrated circuits will devop a crack that widens when heat is applied, thus severing an electrical connection that was fine when the module was cold. You can't see that crack - they are on a micron scale, and inside the IC's of the board. I've seen this a number of times on other makes / models. And I have heard of the Nippondenso ignition modules failing before. If this happens to you again - maybe replace the ND disty with a hitachi - it's a direct swap. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exister99 Posted September 2, 2003 Author Share Posted September 2, 2003 Thanks, GeneralDisorder for the tip about the ICs. That makes perfect sense given the symptoms I observed. Actually the disty I am running is a Hitachi. The module is the type with the little yoke the wraps around the disty shaft. I was pleased to find that the disty internals are practically identical on OHC and OHV engines, even though the bodies themselves aren't interchangeable. Given the high price of remanufactured units I have started collecting distys that have bodies or parts that fit in my '84. So far, in addition to the Hitachi running in my wagon I have: 1 Hitachi OHV body with IM and most internals. 1 complete Hitachi OHC without IM. 1 complete Nippondenso with knackered bushings. I am a little curious about the Nippondensos. They seem a little pricier than the Hitachis on the retail side, maybe due to lower volume. Are they as good as the Hitachis? Are they worth rebuilding? Also, thanks Skip for the pointer. I do recall that there was voltage between the coil and the battery with the key on. I just forgot about that test as I followed the flow chart to the inevitable conclusion of a bad IM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Good stuff fellas... I will have an opportunity to test out some of these methods on a Sube with an "intermittant start" problem in the next few days. Almost a textbook example of the kinds of symptoms you guys are talking about. I'll share my results, and see if it's the same cure as X99's. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exister99 Posted September 2, 2003 Author Share Posted September 2, 2003 Originally posted by thealleyboy I will have an opportunity to test out some of these methods on a Sube with an "intermittant start" problem in the next few days. Good Times John! Don't be afraid to dig into the disty. BTW, when I changed the IM I also swapped out the cast magnet as it was broken in two pieces. Though not an ideal situation I doubt it was the cause of the no-starts. Whatever you do don't pay $150+ for a new IM. A Google search for "Suabaru Ignition Module" yielded one for $53. I myself got a used one out of a disty I picked up for $20. I have a backup from a junkyard unit I scored for $15. In all likelyhood these are both good and my original one failed due to an old overheating problem. Also, the Haynes repair manual has exploded view diagrams for all of the different disty models I have seen. I know of no other source for all of these diagrams. Have Fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 X: Fortunately. I've got all the goods I'll need in my "stash", so cost is not an issue. Also own a copy of the much-maligned Haynes (less a few ripped out pages). I have not had any disty issues with Subes. They have always seemed to be rock solid. It'll be interesting to dig into this one, and learn some more about troubleshooting these cars. Intermittant problems are such back-breakers. Always helpful to know the shortcuts. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 The car I'll be dealing with is an EA82, with a Hitatchi distributor. I referred to the Haynes drawings and unless I'm badly mistaken, it doesn't appear that the Ignition Module is integrated into the disty on the Hitatchi's, as it is on the Nippondensos. Does anyone know the location of the (external?) Ignition Modules on the EA82's? thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exister99 Posted September 3, 2003 Author Share Posted September 3, 2003 External Ignition Module? As I understand it one of two things is true: Either you have a mechanical breaker system with points and a condenser, or you have an internal ignition module, aka ignition control unit, aka pickup coil. All of figures 10.8 b-f have some sort of breakerless ignition module by whatever name. It is the thing the wires go into instead of hooking up with the condenser and points. Easy on the screws, they're hard to replace... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 Ok, I think I gotcha... I beleive it is referred to as the "pickup coil", on the Haynes drawings for the Hitatchi's I was looking at. Integrated into the disty unit just as the Nippendesno model you have. To my knowledge, all of the EA82's came with electronic ignition. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 X-99: Just to clarify... You do mean that the starter would NOT crank, when the ignition module is zapped, right? Just turn the key and "click"? Same symptoms as a weak battery? Doesn't make sense to me intuitively, but I'll take your word for it. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exister99 Posted September 4, 2003 Author Share Posted September 4, 2003 No, no, no! If you turn the key and click then you have a bad starter solenoid, assuming of course your battery is OK. In my case the starter would turn the engine over, but it would not start. I performed a spark test off the main ignition wire and got no spark. In your case I would get your battery good and charged up. Then if the engine won't turn over I would suspect the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 i think only the external modulators are on pre 82 soobs. i got an 83 wagon, it has an ea82 motor from an 86, with the 86's distributor, it shares the same cap and rotor as the one that came on the old motor. it was all plug and play for my application. if you pill the cap and rotor, the is a black piece that stucks up a little, that will be your ignition module. i know what kind of dist to look for, i just dont know what mine is called(nippon, hitachi, what?) the module piece should unplug the starter will have nothing to do with spark, just turning the motor over, thats all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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