Experiences painting Subarus with exotic paints?

[Bratenstein]

I am going to repaint my Brat, and I am wondering about...

 

1. What kind of paint is the factory paint so I can choose the right primer sealer, base coat, and paint process.

 

2. Has anyone used prismatic paint (e.g. DuPont Chromalusion, PPG Harlequin, BASF ExtremeTM, or House of Kolor's paints) to paint their soob?

 

3. Does anyone else love their soob enough to pay more for the paint than the car is worth?

 

4. How many quarts of liquid worth its weight in gold (no joke) does a Brat need? I can skip the bed because I am doing that with spray in bedliner, so it seems like this is a smallish paint job.

 

I didn't see any threads on painting, so I figure it might be nice to discuss it as a break from "Help, my engine is making funny noises!"

[MilesFox]

sorry i cant help you all my expertise lies in spray paint, rustoleum, krylon and the like

 

i couldnt say in quarts but it takes about 5 cans to spray primer a soob. one for the top, one for the hood, 2 each for both sides of the car and the last to use between cans for horizontal surfaces(you want the can upright, use half, get new can, use the half cans for vertical surfaces)

[MorganM]

I have about 150 hours into prep, primer, sanding and painting on Poopenvagen. All for it to turn out with an orange peal texture finish. I hope you have more experience than I do with using real paints and paint guns or you will be more dissapointed than I was.

 

I used Dupont enamle semigloss black. Nothing fancy really. Can't remember which primer I used; just a base grey and again nothing fancy. It was all quality stuff just not as fancy of stuff you are looking at. Local automotive paint supplier had it all on hand. Still spent well over $300 in paint, sealer/hardner, primer, sand paper, etc. At the same time I bought a Champell Hausfield 5hp 35gal air compressor so that was another $350 bucks. The paint gun I got with the compressor was complete crap; ended up using a friends sweet high pressure low volume gun that he uses on all his projects. The paint gun makes a HUGE difference in how it sprays on and flows on the surface; dont scrimp on the gun (I would recomend the opposite of what I used and get a low pressure high volume gun; uses less paint, less air, and better performance). I couldnt even get my gun to shoot primer well; his gun shot primer and the paint flawlessly. How I got the orange peal tecture was I waited too long between coats, the last coat got 'tacky' and the final coat wouldn't 'flow' properly... 'twas a sad day in Poopenvagen's history

 

Once you add the other chemicals to the paint you'd be supprised how far it goes. I had 2 quarts and had about a half can left over. You might use a full 2 quarts since you have to paint the whole bed; where as on the wagon I painted strictly the exterior. Drive the Brat to the paint supplier when you are buying the stuff and then you can ask "hey how much do you think I'll need to hose that down?" They will have a better idea of how much you will require. Buy little quart cans and that way you can return any unopend ones left over if you buy too much.

 

For sanding I tried dry sanding with dual action air sander, block, and electric. I found it to be very dirty, harsh on the lungs (even with cheap masks) and used WAY too much sand paper. Switched to wet sanding and had much greater success. Sanding paper lasted 5x's longer, no need for a mask, and it sure was nice to have a hose constantly running when doing this in the dead of summer (note the 100+ hours of sanding? had a nice tan when I was done!)

 

Here's how the time broke down:

90% sanding, priming, sanding, priming, sanding.... "prep work"

5% taping off

5% painting

 

It's all in the prep work too. Once you start laying down that paint you see EVERY single little mistake you missed sanding. It also amplifies any mistake in the primed surface (hence why it was missed in the first place; now you can see it easily!)

 

I'd rather build another engine than paint another car; good luck!

[karinvail]

I took some auto body in college and one thing I learned was that the prep is most of the work, definitely without a doubt.

 

Also dark colors are much harder than light colors. White, creamy colors, and silver are EASY colors, black and other dark colors are the hardest because they show every tiny imperfection.

 

If I were to paint my Soob - oh, that gunmetal grey color would be it. I don't have THAT much ambition though, LOL.

[thealleyboy]

I will be documenting an "alley" paint job later this spring, and posting complete instructions on this Board (that is - if the elite USMB powers allow me to do so). I will be painting an 89 wagon, but the equipment and techniques are the same for any vehicle.

 

I will be using a oil-base "farm and fleet" paint that comes in primer & several pre-mixed colors, and is available in gallons, quarts and spray cans. There are drawbacks in going with this system, but it is ideal for do-it-yourselfers that want a low cost, durable paint job, that looks halfway decent.

If you can't wait until the write-up, feel free to email me with any painting questions you may have.

good luck, John

thealleyboy@yahoo.com

[Bratenstein]

So far, the only "decent" price I have found for prismatic paint is on www.eastwood.com. They carry the venerable House of Kolor line, and Kameleon is a mere $526.99 a quart. I was thinking I would need 2 quarts if I don't paint the bed (following the experience above). The rest of the chemicals would be several hundred more. Definitely a job for a good HVLP spray gun unless I want to imagine dollar bills fluttering away in the wind.

 

House of Kolor and Sherwin-Williams seem to be the only brands I can get on-line prices for (SW was $400 a pint). I wonder where the on-line retailers are for Dupont, PPG, and BASF?

 

Subaru has a reputation for lousy paint (at least in recent years), so I was expecting to have to remove everything down to the metal. Would aircraft remover be a good choice? I have done three bad paint jobs on cars, but I have to get this right if I am going to do it.

[karinvail]

OMG that is an unreal price for that paint! No wonder you don't see it on many cars!

 

Even the rattle can stuff for that cameleon paint is pretty darn expensive though. I wonder what is in it that makes it so expensive?!

[thealleyboy]

Would aircraft remover be a good choice? I have done three bad paint jobs on cars, but I have to get this right if I am going to do it.

 

Yes, airplane stripper will get you down to bare metal faster than anything I've ever used. But, this is pretty toxic stuff. You may not need to strip the whole car if there are areas with a solid base coat.

I'm wondering why you had three bad paint jobs in a row? Bad surface prep would certainly do it, but it could also be incompatible paints, a lousy gun, the painting environment itself, or just the wrong painting technique.

How have you done your paint jobs in the past? You definitely want to get the steps right if you are going to be spending that kind of $$ for real automotive paint!! Paint is usually not the problem unless it is old, or improperly mixed.

John

[FlyB0y]

well if your going to pay that much for paint, wouldn't you want someone with a good deal of experiance doing the job? I'm definatly what you'd call a do-it-yourselfer, but man ... if I was going to have to pay $800 for the supplies, I don't think I would want to take a chance with my own very limited skill (that's just me, maybe you have lots more experiance painting)

 

Just something I thought I would point out

 

When I paint mine, I am going to be only paying about $250 - 300 for the paint + primer, but I'm not exactly sure if this laquer paint I want to use is compatable with the exsisting subaru paint, if it is, other than time, I should have little more than $400 max into the job and my time.

 

When I want a really nice paint job, (when I can afford it) I will give it to the local classic car builder and pay him $2,000 to do it best. :cool:

[All_talk]

Also dark colors are much harder than light colors. White, creamy colors, and silver are EASY colors, black and other dark colors are the hardest because they show every tiny imperfection.

 

Most silvers are metallic and light metallics like silver and gold tones are not easy.

 

I do a bit of autobody and paint work, here are a few things I’ve learned (most of them the hard way).

 

Quality equipment maters, stick to solid colors (no metallic or perils) unless you are going to use a higher end gun that can properly atomize the suspended particles, good guns start around $300. Your compressor wont ever really be big enough unless you spend $1000, you can get by and do good work with a $400 unit (I do), but timing becomes more important. In most cases it doesn’t make since to buy equipment for one paint job, borrow or rent.

 

If you don’t have a clean booth to work in do not try and use cheap single stage enamels, there is no way to fix them when they turn out full of dirt (I’d recommend never using them). Base/Clearcoat systems are much easier to spray and offer the opportunity to fix defects along the way and after the job is done, money well spent.

 

YES, its all in the prep… every defect you can see in primer (plus a lot you don’t) will show in the paint, the final gloss will hide nothing and show every shortcut.

 

Buy more paint than you think you’ll need… you’ll need it (for a Brat without the bed I’d get at least 3 quarts sprayable, more if you’re shooting the inside).

 

I’d recommend buying a book or two, there’s a lot to learn. Also check out this site for great advice and good deals on equipment (I bought my gun there):

 

Hope this helps

Gary

[MorganM]

There is no need to take it down to bare metal. It will ad hundreds of hours to prep work and hundreds of dollars to your bottom line. Get the gloss coat off the current paint and a good surface for the primer to adhear to. This is also when you will cut out any rust and bondo back what you can or weld in new metal. You can build up the primer over the this surface and lay yourself a nice surface for that big $$$$ paint. I'm talking layers of primer here.... sand, prime, sand, prime, sand, prime....

 

Honestly you should be talking to automotive paint professionals and the people at your local, reputable, automative paint supplier. They will answer all these questions and have better advice on things not even coverd here. Forget shopping around online for this stuff. You need to be talkign one on one with professionals. That's where I learned what little I know; from talking to the guy I borrowed the spray gun from as he worked auotmotive paint for years and does plenty of painting on his to scale R/C Jets he builds and talking to the people at the automotive paint supplier (they supply to most of the big name shops around the twincities).

[karinvail]

I agree - this high dollar paint shoudl be done by a professional or you will be kicking yourself later.

 

Maybe you can do all the prep work and a local body-shop could do the paint spraying for you?

[Craven]

Doing a flip flop paint job.

 

First you do your basic prep. work, primer, sealer.

Then you spray 3 coats of Black.

Over the black you spray the flip flop It would take less than a qt. for a brat.

Then 3 coats of clear over that. Check this place out. They have flip flop powder that you add to clear or a candy color to get that effect $26.00. http://www.thetuulshed.com/

[Bratenstein]

Yes, airplane stripper will get you down to bare metal faster than anything I've ever used. But, this is pretty toxic stuff. You may not need to strip the whole car if there are areas with a solid base coat.

 

I'm wondering why you had three bad paint jobs in a row? Bad surface prep would certainly do it, but it could also be incompatible paints, a lousy gun, the painting environment itself, or just the wrong painting technique.

 

How have you done your paint jobs in the past? You definitely want to get the steps right if you are going to be spending that kind of $$ for real automotive paint!! Paint is usually not the problem unless it is old, or improperly mixed.

 

John

 

 

 

 

I have painted a VW bug, a Karman Ghia, and a Toyota Corolla (and a motor cycle) when I was a teen-ager. Other than being a teen-ager, the problems I had were: not enough surface preparation, sorry masking, and my dad's cheap equipment. I have learned a lot, although not enough to have it professionally done .

 

Yeah, I got all excited about color-changing paint before I found out how expensive it is. I'll admit I would feel squeamish doing it myself, especially if it will take three quarts!

 

There is an alternative--Dupli-color Mirage spray paint, sold at fine Walmarts everywhere. Tonight I am going to buy a kit and paint my motorcycle helmet. I will post the results when I get it done for all to see. I figure if it works, I could buy a dozen kits at $20 each and do an Earl Scheib job for about the price of an Earl Scheib job. I could always sand it off and repaint it, right?

[MorganM]

I agree - this high dollar paint shoudl be done by a professional or you will be kicking yourself later.

 

Maybe you can do all the prep work and a local body-shop could do the paint spraying for you?

 

My intent was not to queel the DIY spirit. Certainly spray it on if you want to. I'm just saying talk to some pros with your questions first before even buying anything. There's good advice in this thread but nothing compared to what some old pros could tell you and show you. They will get you on the right track for tackeling this project yourself.

[thealleyboy]

Gary:

 

If you dont have a clean booth to work in do not try and use cheap single stage enamels, there is no way to fix them when they turn out full of dirt (Id recommend never using them). Base/Clearcoat systems are much easier to spray and offer the opportunity to fix defects along the way and after the job is done, money well spent.

 

Totally true. The only way you can get away with an "alley" paint job is if you go by the book. Any shortcuts will blow the paint job.

 

I will say that single stage enamels, do have a couple of advantages going for them. Extremly low cost, and out-of-the-can convenience.

 

YES, its all in the prep… every defect you can see in primer (plus a lot you don’t) will show in the paint, the final gloss will hide nothing and show every shortcut.

 

A good prep can make a half-rump roast paint job look respectable. If you aren't willing to do the prep, don't even bother with the finish coat. This applies to any paint system you decide to use.

 

Id recommend buying a book or two, theres a lot to learn. Also check out this site for great advice and good deals on equipment (I bought my gun there):

 

Hope this helps

Gary

Good advice.Never attempt something like this without researching, and understanding each step of the process.