Cougar Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Perhaps there is another signal that is missing or wrong to the ECU. I would really recommend you look at the CAS signal with a scope to make sure the pulses are correct. Did you also make sure that fuse #5 was good? Edit: Another thought. What happens to the input signal to the ignitor from the ECU with the ignition on and no cranking, and then also when cranking? Also, let me know what the voltage is on plus side of the coil when cranking. I am wonder if this is going to ground also. If so, then the ignitor would appear to be bad. My manual shows one of the leads going to a condenser. I am guessing it is on the minus side of the coil. Do you have this in place. Possibly without it the ignitor may be damaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 That being the case, it sounds like the ECU is turning the ignitor on continually. It doesn't sound like it is shorted or open but is working, just staying turned on and assume by the ECU. You may need to get a scope to look at the input and output signals of the ECU and the CAS. Back at post #33 Dneu said he had a pulsing signal from the ECU while cranking which sounds right. Could a power transistor get stuck "on"? I'm familiar with the three terminal power transistor with a collector, base , and emitter. What is the set-up of this four wire transistor?:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 I remember that he did say that but he was using a voltmeter to check it with. I would really like to know what a scope shows. As far as the fourth lead Roy I can only think that may tie to another transistor, but I really don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Dneufeld, Please let me know what the test results are from my post #51. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 My manual shows one of the leads going to a condenser. I am guessing it is on the minus side of the coil. Do you have this in place. Possibly without it the ignitor may be damaged.Thanks for the fourth wire insight. I suspect the wiring diagrams are electrically correct but diagramatically incorrect. I'm sure the condensor is wired into the plus side of the coil but its actual connection point may be somewhere along the BW wire's route back to pin 19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Hey Glen----Since two of the transistor's four wires are BW they may both connect to the emitter. The purpose of running both to the same connect point is to prevent surges that upset ECUs. How's that for late night theory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Hey Glen----Since two of the transistor's four wires are BW they may both connect to the emitter. The purpose of running both to the same connect point is to prevent surges that upset ECUs. How's that for late night theory? I think the BW wires go to different points Roy. My drawing shows one of them tieing to power through fuse #11 and also ties to the ECU pin #19. The other BW wire from the ignitor goes to the condensor which is tied to ground. I assume this is working as a bypass cap on the minus side of the coil like the old points and condensor in a distributor did years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Hey Glen----Since two of the transistor's four wires are BW they may both connect to the emitter. The purpose of running both to the same connect point is to prevent surges that upset ECUs. How's that for late night theory? Hey Glen---What I should have said is: The purpose of running both FROM the same connect point is to prevent surges. Both BW wires connecting to the emitter inside the igniter. What's missing in the diagrams is the BW wire running from the + side of the coil, and according to Dneu, back to pin 19. Once we have the test results from post #51 we might be able to figure this one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 You may be right Roy. Hopefully we can get this solved soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Dneufeld, Here is a copy of a thread by 89Ru. Please check the wiring on your CAS. It may be wrong. His is correct. Glen, Reading dneufelds post has me wondering about my hookup He states "red power / black reference / white position / green ground" My hookup: red power / green reference / white position / black ground I base this on my FSM which says: GB power GY ref sign BW pos sign B ground I suppose '87 and '89 could have different wire colors...just wondering. The CAS was drawing 31 mA at 12V on red --> black Michael Dneufeld, your black and green wires may be reversed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dneufeld Posted May 23, 2005 Author Share Posted May 23, 2005 hey guys i will try all of these ideas out soon, ive been away for the weekend so i'll get an update soon on any progress thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dneufeld Posted May 24, 2005 Author Share Posted May 24, 2005 hey couger I owe you a case of beer!, the fsm i had listed the disty wrong so the wires were reversed on the cas. yahhhhhhhhhooooooooooo im in buisness now. i suppose i just need some resistors for the injectors, hopefully i can find some. thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Hey Glen----Great detective work!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 I really can't take the credit here for catching the wiring problem. It was noticed by 89Ru while he was having a problem of his own. I just passed on the info he noticed. Glad you got it going Dneufeld. It was a struggle but perseverance pays off again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggymike Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 FYI - The engine would still run if the knock sensor was bad. Mine was bad and unplugged for a week and the engine ran OK, but not geat. I picked one up from the J-yard this last weekend and it definitely made a difference. Hope you find your spark soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 hey couger I owe you a case of beer!, the fsm i had listed the disty wrong so the wires were reversed on the cas. yahhhhhhhhhooooooooooo im in buisness now. Hey Dneu----Before fixing the crossed wires, did codes 21 and 22 come back after erasure? It's very interesting that the ECU didn't detect the very unusual "reference" signal and throw a code 11.:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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