gettechnical Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 As if the rising price of gas weren't enough, it's nearly impossible to get the fuel into the tank at any cost. What happens is that the gas backs up into the fill pipe, shutting off the nozzle prematurely. Once the tank is about half full, it only takes about a half a gallon at a time unless you let it in very slowly. Unfortunately, I live in New Jersey, which is one of the two states which outlaw self-serve, and there's no way the attendant is going to nurse the gas in like this. The problem, as the astute observer has probably discerned, is that the vapor/air displaced by the entering fuel is being restricted in its passage out of the fuel tank. I suspect a problem with the vent valve. Replacing this item requires removing the fuel tank--a major operation I cannot do by myself. So my question is: does anyone know if this is a common problem, and is there a simpler work-around to fixing it (say, forcing a solvent down the vent line to clean out the vent valve or something)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 The subaru tank is split in 2 halves. The fuel fill side fills first, then it overflows via a pipe to the other side. The My first question is are you going by what the pump says or the fuel gauge. The car then drains the none fuel fill side first (from what ive seen trying to fix my fuel senders). Assuming you are coming to this conclusion via the fuel pump reading, it sounds like you have a pinched vent line, or a collapsed hose. There used to be (dont know if it is still there) a vent line that ran from the tank to the filler neck to vent air. Another possability is a dented tank. Another place to look is the EVAP system, as the problem may lie in there. The tank should just fill up except for the last 1/4 to 1/2 gallon (at most a gallon). Look for the obvious first before you have to take the tank out. A solvent wont work, as the falve only lets fumes pass through, and shuts off when liquid is present. With your present problem, a solvent would never get to the valve. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
color-blind Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 As if the rising price of gas weren't enough, it's nearly impossible to get the fuel into the tank at any cost. What happens is that the gas backs up into the fill pipe, shutting off the nozzle prematurely. Once the tank is about half full, it only takes about a half a gallon at a time unless you let it in very slowly. Unfortunately, I live in New Jersey, which is one of the two states which outlaw self-serve, and there's no way the attendant is going to nurse the gas in like this. The problem, as the astute observer has probably discerned, is that the vapor/air displaced by the entering fuel is being restricted in its passage out of the fuel tank. I suspect a problem with the vent valve. Replacing this item requires removing the fuel tank--a major operation I cannot do by myself. So my question is: does anyone know if this is a common problem, and is there a simpler work-around to fixing it (say, forcing a solvent down the vent line to clean out the vent valve or something)? Something is plugged. Very easy fix. Here is a link: Good luck. http://www.endwrench.com/pdf/fuel/WontTakeFuelInfoW00.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettechnical Posted September 21, 2005 Author Share Posted September 21, 2005 The subaru tank is split in 2 halves. The fuel fill side fills first, then it overflows via a pipe to the other side. The My first question is are you going by what the pump says or the fuel gauge. The car then drains the none fuel fill side first (from what ive seen trying to fix my fuel senders). The guage seems accurate. That is, when the guage shows nearly empty, the tank will accept at least 13 gallons of its 60 liter capacity as long as you fill it V-E-R-Y slowly, and the only way that can happen is when the attendant gives up in in disgust end tells me to fill my OWN goddamn tank, which I then proceed to do (breaking the law in the process). Assuming you are coming to this conclusion via the fuel pump reading, it sounds like you have a pinched vent line, or a collapsed hose. There used to be (dont know if it is still there) a vent line that ran from the tank to the filler neck to vent air. Another possability is a dented tank. There is indeed such a line, and it's not pinched that I can see. Nor is there any obvious physical damage. Another place to look is the EVAP system, as the problem may lie in there. I haven't ruled out the EVAP system, but as near as I can tell, the displaced air when refuelling is supposed to go directly to the top of the filler pipe through the aforementioned vent line to be sucked up by the vapor recover bellows on the nozzle. It doesn't appear that it takes a trip through any solenoid valves or the cannister, but one thing I have NOT yet found is a complete description of just how the whole fuel/evaporative system is supposed to work in detail. Apparently, mechanics just know this by osmosis. Look for the obvious first before you have to take the tank out. A solvent wont work, as the falve only lets fumes pass through, and shuts off when liquid is present. With your present problem, a solvent would never get to the valve. I suppose I could also remove the fuel pump assembly and try to fiddle with the vent valve from the inside. Haven't tried that yet. Thanks for your advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Actually the process on the endwrench is a great way to test it. Also if it makes you feel better, I break the law all the time in NJ (well when it comes to pumping gas that is.... and maybe the speedlimit). Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferret Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 The Valve in the filler neck on 98-2000 Subaru's have been a source of just this problem. The proper mechanic, who has seen it, will be able to diagnose it. If you have any mechanical ability, I have attached 2 files which describe it's function. If it IS the problem, the filler assy comes out and the valve alone can be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferret Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Well I can't attach the 2nd pdf which describes how it all works, seems I exceeded my attachment quota.....maybe this will work PS I also live in the Garden State...love it in winter when someone else gets cold pumping gas.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettechnical Posted September 22, 2005 Author Share Posted September 22, 2005 Something is plugged. Very easy fix. Here is a link: Good luck. http://www.endwrench.com/pdf/fuel/WontTakeFuelInfoW00.pdf That's very interesting, because it indicates that the displaced air during refeuling SHOULD go through the canister, condradicting what I just wrote to Joe. (Now I wonder what that vent hose is for, if not to return vapor to the nozzle...hmmm). I shall investigate tomorrow. Thanks very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettechnical Posted September 22, 2005 Author Share Posted September 22, 2005 Well I can't attach the 2nd pdf which describes how it all works, seems I exceeded my attachment quota.....maybe this will workPS I also live in the Garden State...love it in winter when someone else gets cold pumping gas.... Extremely helpful PDFs! Thanks very much! I was all over the Subaru technical docs site and couldn't find anything like this. Now I finally know what's going on. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettechnical Posted September 22, 2005 Author Share Posted September 22, 2005 Well, I found the problem: the end of the vent pipe after the drain filter that sticks up into a hollow part of the body was blocked off by a spider's egg sac. I found this by removing the canister and blowing into the various hoses to find where the resistance was coming from. The key to finding the cause was the diagram showing how the parts of the evap system were supposed to work (instead of me guessing how it worked), as well as that link to the tips page for refueling problems. Since I apparently can't make attachments, here's a link to what it looked like: http://fotothing.com/tony/photo/c3116e6b437ac2a7e12cbfef149d77ef/ (The small hole in the blockage may have been caused by my blowing through the pipe--it was pretty tough to force air through!) Thanks again to all the folks who offered such great information! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinsUBARU Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 before you spend $$/time fixing it, try tilting the gas pump to something like 7-8 o'clock while you are pumping. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Way cool that it worked out for you Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KStretch55 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 New Jersey and Oregon must have strong lobby for gas station attendant unions or something. I always forget when I go across the border to Oregon and get chewed out by the attendant for touching the pump handle. I don't know about NJ, but in OR they charge you more for this "service", the least they could do is check the oil and do the windows!! Amazing that 48 other states don't see this as an environmental or safety problem, but these two do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinsUBARU Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 oh crap, you already fixed it. Well, for anyone else that has this problem, try my temp solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crashton Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Well, I found the problem: the end of the vent pipe after the drain filter that sticks up into a hollow part of the body was blocked off by a spider's egg sac. I found this by removing the canister and blowing into the various hoses to find where the resistance was coming from. The key to finding the cause was the diagram showing how the parts of the evap system were supposed to work (instead of me guessing how it worked), as well as that link to the tips page for refueling problems. Since I apparently can't make attachments, here's a link to what it looked like: http://fotothing.com/tony/photo/c3116e6b437ac2a7e12cbfef149d77ef/ (The small hole in the blockage may have been caused by my blowing through the pipe--it was pretty tough to force air through!) Thanks again to all the folks who offered such great information! I've had this happen twice on my 2000 Forester. The last time I took it all apart I used some small hose clamps to hold the hoses on tight. I'm guessing the anacrids can't get in there now since it's not happened since. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 New Jersey and Oregon must have strong lobby for gas station attendant unions or something. I always forget when I go across the border to Oregon and get chewed out by the attendant for touching the pump handle. I don't know about NJ, but in OR they charge you more for this "service", the least they could do is check the oil and do the windows!! Amazing that 48 other states don't see this as an environmental or safety problem, but these two do. I always thought it was some sort of guarnteeed employment program. We dont complain about NJ gas prices as they are cheaper then NY, and about the same as surounding states with self service (or used to be). Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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