Raindog Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Hi I own a '96 Subaru Outback 5 spd. with 115k miles. I just had the belts (timing and fan) changed while repairing some old leaking seals. They also put in a new "idler bearing kit" for the timing belt. The oil leak is gone BUT my rpm's are uncomfortably high. I am shifting into 4th gear at about 40-45mph at 3000rpm and driving in 5th gear at 60 mph and 3000rpm. My mechanic says they don't have much room for error on timing because they are factory set??? Before the repair, I wouldn't hit 3000rpm in 5th until 70-75mph. Does anyone know what is the normal range? and what can be done about adjusting timing? or could this be from something else?? Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 HiI own a '96 Subaru Outback 5 spd. with 115k miles. I just had the belts (timing and fan) changed while repairing some old leaking seals. They also put in a new "idler bearing kit" for the timing belt. The oil leak is gone BUT my rpm's are uncomfortably high. I am shifting into 4th gear at about 40-45mph at 3000rpm and driving in 5th gear at 60 mph and 3000rpm. My mechanic says they don't have much room for error on timing because they are factory set??? Before the repair, I wouldn't hit 3000rpm in 5th until 70-75mph. Does anyone know what is the normal range? and what can be done about adjusting timing? or could this be from something else?? Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Susan If the car is going a different speed at the same engine speed, either the transmission gear ratios changed (which, unless they accidentally replaced your transmission, I don't see happening:D), or the clutch is slipping. I can't see how doing timing belts or seals could have any effect on the gear ratios, so I'd suspect a slipping clutch. Zeke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storydude1 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Disregard..I need to read more. Is there a power loss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 Thanks for responding. No, there is no power loss, although it accelerates higher on hills now. Highway driving isn't good because I don't want to push it over 65mph with such high rpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 If the car is going a different speed at the same engine speed, either the transmission gear ratios changed (which, unless they accidentally replaced your transmission, I don't see happening:D), or the clutch is slipping. I can't see how doing timing belts or seals could have any effect on the gear ratios, so I'd suspect a slipping clutch. Zeke Hi Thanks for the reply. I thought the timing would have to be "adjusted" with a new belt? Anyway, any other indications about a slipping clutch and is it possibly just coincidental that this began as soon as I got the car back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Thanks for responding. No, there is no power loss, although it accelerates higher on hills now. Highway driving isn't good because I don't want to push it over 65mph with such high rpm. My '89 GL wagon runs about 3,500 to 4,000 rpm on the highway at 75 - 80. I don't think this harms the subaru engines. But you are right, if it was not doing this before, it shouldn't be doing it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I vote for slipping clutch. Likely coincidental. How many miles on the odometer and what kind of side street/highway mix do you drive? 75 in 5th at 3k sounds about right. I believe you. Bet the lower gears seem normal too - classic slipping clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunered Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 did they switch tire and wheel size while they were at it? ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 Thanks Yes, idling and around town driving seem almost the same. I notice the need to shift up in 3rd 4th and 5th ( due to the high rpms.) It's got 115k miles. So is it typical not to notice this in lower gears if it is the clutch, and am I potentially doing damage now? I am keeping it to 65 on the highway (just over 3000rpms) Susan I vote for slipping clutch. Likely coincidental. How many miles on the odometer and what kind of side street/highway mix do you drive? 75 in 5th at 3k sounds about right. I believe you. Bet the lower gears seem normal too - classic slipping clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storydude1 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 ThanksYes, idling and around town driving seem almost the same. I notice the need to shift up in 3rd 4th and 5th ( due to the high rpms.) It's got 115k miles. So is it typical not to notice this in lower gears if it is the clutch, and am I potentially doing damage now? I am keeping it to 65 on the highway (just over 3000rpms) Susan It eventually will leave you stranded. slippage makes heat. Heat hardens the Flywheel, making hard spots that the clutch cannot grab.(for lack of a better, more complicated explaination) Sooner or later the car will become undrivable. Now, that was the bad news. The GOOD news is a Clutch replacement is not too rough of a job, And might not even be needed IF the Outback has a cable clutch..it might just be out of adjustment. Someone on here that knows the newer bodystyle will have to chime in and answer that one. If the clutch needs to be replaced, it's usually a 250-500 dollar job unless you are somewhat handy, and have access to tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Hmm, does sound like a slipping clutch. However, don't worry about the engine revs, 3000rpm is nothing. I cruise my Impreza at a legal 80 mph and the gearing puts me at 3500rpm. I regularly take the engine into 5000-6000 range when accelerating. No worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 Well thanks again for the info. Unfortunately, I am not "handy" with cars...Any estimate on how long I can drive it? It eventually will leave you stranded. slippage makes heat. Heat hardens the Flywheel, making hard spots that the clutch cannot grab.(for lack of a better, more complicated explaination) Sooner or later the car will become undrivable. Now, that was the bad news. The GOOD news is a Clutch replacement is not too rough of a job, And might not even be needed IF the Outback has a cable clutch..it might just be out of adjustment. Someone on here that knows the newer bodystyle will have to chime in and answer that one. If the clutch needs to be replaced, it's usually a 250-500 dollar job unless you are somewhat handy, and have access to tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Well thanks again for the info. Unfortunately, I am not "handy" with cars...Any estimate on how long I can drive it? Setright is correct as far as the engine not being at risk. However, you really need to get this investigated. A simple adjustment now may save a coupla' hundred or more later. If the clutcth material IS actually worn away (quite likely at your mileage - and perfectly normal BTW) you will only get poorer gas mileage and destroy the flywheel, it may be damaged now. Really, have someone take a look ASAP. Soon, even engine braking will be reduced and you will only lose more and more 'driveability'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunered Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 come on guys a clutch dont slip and stay at a given rpm,does the rpms vary with throttle? if you are in high gear and you push gas pedal to the floor does the rpms go up drasticly? ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 However, don't worry about the engine revs, 3000rpm is nothing. I cruise my Impreza at a legal 80 mph and the gearing puts me at 3500rpm. I regularly take the engine into 5000-6000 range when accelerating. No worries. Are you used to the big V-8 engines? I had a friend who was used to big american V-8's in the 60's and 70's. The first 4 banger he got had no power whatsoever. Then he realized that you have to rev it higher than 2,000 rpms, and suddenly it wasn't so bad. It did take him a while to get used to 3,000 or 3,500 being in the middle of the power band, instead of being your high shift point. I try to use 4,500 or so as my high shift point just because I've got 204k miles on the engine. On the clutch slipping, it does sound a bit odd that it's a sustained rpm, rather than varying with throttle. If you are cruising at 60, and floor it, does the engine rpm suddenly jump, before the car actually starts accelerating? What's the clutch test you can do by nosing up to a tree, then trying to let the clutch out? I can't remember which gear you try this in to test for a slipping clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Are you used to the big V-8 engines? I had a friend who was used to big american V-8's in the 60's and 70's. The first 4 banger he got had no power whatsoever. Then he realized that you have to rev it higher than 2,000 rpms, and suddenly it wasn't so bad. It did take him a while to get used to 3,000 or 3,500 being in the middle of the power band, instead of being your high shift point. I try to use 4,500 or so as my high shift point just because I've got 204k miles on the engine. On the clutch slipping, it does sound a bit odd that it's a sustained rpm, rather than varying with throttle. If you are cruising at 60, and floor it, does the engine rpm suddenly jump, before the car actually starts accelerating? What's the clutch test you can do by nosing up to a tree, then trying to let the clutch out? I can't remember which gear you try this in to test for a slipping clutch. lol! yeah, IIRC you can nose up to a wall, tree, post/w'ever, select say 5th (4th?) gear and dump the clutch(at idle), the engine should stall. Is it possible she has a rear main leaking oil onto the f'wheel? I dunno - but I would get it investigated - soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 Thanks for all your responses. I had all the seals replaced when they did the timing belt last week. I had a huge leak across the most of the undercarriage when the seal blew. So...could that have leaked oil onto the freewheel that the pressure wash didn't take care off? I used to drive 70-75 in 5th at about 3200rpm (for 5 years!) and since I picked the car up, I'm hitting 3000 at 60mph in 5th. When I hit the gas at 60, the rpm rise accordingly but not jumpy.??? lol! yeah, IIRC you can nose up to a wall, tree, post/w'ever, select say 5th (4th?) gear and dump the clutch(at idle), the engine should stall. Is it possible she has a rear main leaking oil onto the f'wheel? I dunno - but I would get it investigated - soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 I haven't pushed the pedal to the floor in high gear, just regular acceleration with typical rpm increase. What would that show? What should I look for in doing it? come on guys a clutch dont slip and stay at a given rpm,does the rpms vary with throttle? if you are in high gear and you push gas pedal to the floor does the rpms go up drasticly? ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 OK, here's an idea from another mechanic. Could it possibly be the cruise control actuator? This guy thinks the engine would rev higher like this if perhaps that CCA got leaned on by accident and may be pulling on the throttle. Possible or highly unlikely??? I haven't pushed the pedal to the floor in high gear, just regular acceleration with typical rpm increase. What would that show? What should I look for in doing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 OK, here's an idea from another mechanic. Could it possibly be the cruise control actuator? This guy thinks the engine would rev higher like this if perhaps that CCA got leaned on by accident and may be pulling on the throttle. Possible or highly unlikely??? Hmmmmm. I think unlikely. In a manual transmission car the wheels are solidly locked to the engine crankshaft when you are moving, so for the relative speed for them to change, some part of that solid connection has to be not so solid any more. In an automatic, yes, the engine speed can vary at a given vehical speed, but I just can't understand how it could in a manual. Anyone else? Am I missing something here? Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunered Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 i think the kanuter valve in the upper corner lower left might be leaking,might want to tighten nut behind the steering wheel to. ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 OK Here's another theory on the high rpms--cam/crank sensor is off? Any input? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a97obw Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 The cam sensor and the crank angle sensor are fixed in their location. So if the computer is seeing the crank at X and the cam at Y then they didn't put the belt on correctly. How does it idle? Normal RPM at idle? If it idles really fast I'd suspect a vacuum line is not installed. I don't buy the slipping clutch idea. If nothing else you'd smell something really bad if that were going on. So to recap, you had the shop change the timing belt and the seals and now this happens when you left the shop. I find "coincidence" hard to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 Thanks It idles at about 500 rpms -- but I realized I am shifting up sooner in all gears not just 3,4 and 5. No funny smells, (just a little residual oil burning off) The cam sensor and the crank angle sensor are fixed in their location. So if the computer is seeing the crank at X and the cam at Y then they didn't put the belt on correctly. How does it idle? Normal RPM at idle? If it idles really fast I'd suspect a vacuum line is not installed. I don't buy the slipping clutch idea. If nothing else you'd smell something really bad if that were going on. So to recap, you had the shop change the timing belt and the seals and now this happens when you left the shop. I find "coincidence" hard to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunered Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 anyway you look at it a increase in rpms will equate to more mph,maybe the tach is somehow off,if you boost it to 500 hp the final drive is still the same,if it dont slip in top gear the tach is off or he just dont remember exactly the rpms.i dont think vodoo is involved here. ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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