Aussi Vortex Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 #*^! engineers ! I tried to get some hubs engineered, (by 2 different engineers) without welding up the original stud holes - without success. * Engineer reasonably requested that the holes be welded up. (fair enough) * He also said that they had to be welded by someone with knoledge of the necessary procedure - yer, well ok ( diffferent materials, different welding techniques , OK, I can live with that) I may need to have the procedure varified by the engineer, before the welding takes place. ...but " what is the "exact" material that the "L" series hubs are made from? (yes, I know it's metal of some description ) Does any one know? Is there a spec sheet that will have this info - somewhere? A metalergist (the expert who does metal analasys) wants to charge between $280 to $350 to tell me what the material is.. after taking a sample and testing it. I thought someone here may know , or has done this already. I have heard that the most common technique is to heat the hub to a certain temperature, in some sort of oven, weld it using a similar material to the hub re heat it and let cool. I was wanting to do the new 5 stud conversion, but will be priced out of my budget, so this is the next best thing. Just want to get some better rims eventually ( 17"s would be nice). another thought, does anyone have 4 x 114 conversion and done something different? I'm open to suggestions ( but in reality, if it were dead easy, everyone would be doing it) 4 x 114 stud pattern, obviously isn't as good as 5 stud, but it's gotta be better that 4 x 140. Any thoughts anyone? thanks Chris _________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 the 6x140 conversion is the easiest and cheapest way to get larger rims. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 the 6x140 conversion is the easiest and cheapest way to get larger rims. -Brian Yeah, thats a very easy way to do it. Pop two studs out, place the 6 stud wheel on the hub on the remaining two studs, get out the drill and drill out the other 4 holes for the 6 stud wheel, get the studs you poped out, get 2 new ones, and hammer them all in from the back, bolt on the 6 stud wheel, and done. 15 or 16" wheel on a subie. Wonder how legal it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 But... if you want street wheels. You wouldn't want 6 stud ones (as they are only for 4x4s.).... I have heard of someone getting there hubs converted to 5 stud ones. I recommend taking your hubs to a mech, and telling them you want them to be XXXmm 5 stud hubs, and asking how much. Stuff the legal side of it, no ones gonna tell if its origianl or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussi Vortex Posted December 10, 2005 Author Share Posted December 10, 2005 I do want street wheels, It is going on a up market XT coupe. Probably 17" 5 studs are the way to go, but here in Australia, we don't get the XT6 5 stud option (very expensive to import) and 5 stud conversion will set me back at least $1000 + heaps of time. it can be done from Legacy / Liberty parts, but a long winded process 4 x 114 is only a re drill, a weld and a certification- very simple. Insurance is the real killer if I don't have it engineered. No certificate, no rego, no insurance. If you have a problem, you dont get a chance to fix it, as you will be under a ton of bricks. Same as being done for driving a car with no rego or insurance + if there was an accident, you can be sued for the full damages, weather it was your fault or not. I want it legal... any one else have any thoughts on the material content of a "L" series hub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_talk Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 #*^! engineers ! Easy now, I’m an engineer.:-p The hubs are cast iron or cast steel, the later being more weldable, exactly what type I cant tell you. The issues with welding cast iron, and to a lesser degree cast steel, are mostly due to is relatively high carbon content and that carbon’s nature to precipitate when heated, leading to brittleness at the edge of the heat effected zone. Pre and post heating are the norm to temper this effect. Also, any imperfections in the weld will create stress points that will eventually fail under the type of cyclic loading a hub sees. The filler metal used is also critical, cast iron is often welded with a high nickel rod. Without all the engineer talk… if not done right they will break, a serious safety concern for a road car. Here in the US doing the 5-lug swap with salvage parts in the most affordable option, not sure how thing balance out there in AU. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussi Vortex Posted December 10, 2005 Author Share Posted December 10, 2005 It will cost a lot - somewhere round $1000 + a lot of time to do a Legasy / Liberty suspension / hub swap. XT6's are not available + expensive to import the hub assemblies ( around $1400 if available.) Has anyone found out exactly what the hub material is for an XL / L series? How do you tell the difference between cast iron and cast steel? I can get the holes filled professionally, as long as I know what the material is. the edge of the new studs are 3/16 away from the edge of the old. If it was to get brittle, how far would it be affected? thanks again Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratsrus1 Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Hi Chris This is Jerry, i have done 2 sets of 4 lug hubs. I didn't weld up the holes i just machined 4 new holes and turn down the hub so it wasn't so big. I have a set of hubs on my 86 hatchback that has a bolt circle of 4 on 4 and 1 half inch that is toyota car. The next set i will be doing is 4 on 4 and three quarter inch bolt pattern, i have a set of mag wheels with that bolt pattern. The hubs are cast steel i have welded on a set before and i have turn a set of hubs down in the lathe they are cast steel cast iron machines alot different and also welds didderent. I have alot of time in my hubs but not much money in them. Thanks Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 A member called Brumby Boy was looking at some wheels for his brumby. Theres a place that import un drilled wheels and drill them to your needs. Maybe cheaper to do this, tho I think the choise is limited. Yeah, legal is good. It just costs you lots. Can't belive a professional can't tell you what there made of just how professional is a professional? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarian Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 It seems to me the simple solution would be to drill the new lugs centered between the old holes. There really wouldn't be any reason to weld up the old holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussi Vortex Posted December 10, 2005 Author Share Posted December 10, 2005 Thanks for the replies so far - please feel ferr to keep them comming . The professional "metalergest" can tell me exactly what the material is, except that the best quote for this service so far is $325.00. I can get a better price from interstate ( Australian states are big tho)and just send them some of the material from the hub ( shavings I would imagine) and will come with a written "content" report, with how much of this, this much of that - all relating up to the total sum of either cast steel or iron ! The machine shop that can weld it, recons it is probably cast steel, but said that if it has'nt been welded in the correct manor, that it may crack and not be fixable. I spose that unless someone knows for sure, I will just have to get the test done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussi Vortex Posted December 10, 2005 Author Share Posted December 10, 2005 It seems to me the simple solution would be to drill the new lugs centered between the old holes. There really wouldn't be any reason to weld up the old holes. If only it wat that easy... the protrusions on the back of the hub make it - lets just say - rather difficult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratsrus1 Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Hey Vortex This is Jerry, no it's not hard to put new holes in these hubs. You don't have to weld up the old holes. You need to get a rear stub shalf with the bearings and spacer and a set up for the front also. Bolt the hub on the stub shalf and chuck it in the lathe. Machine the front of the hub and mark the bolt circle with the cutter tool then center punch your bolt circle and drill holes. On the back side chuck the hub in the milling machine and mill the bolt holes flat. Pound the studs back in the hub X by 4 then your done. Thanks Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wombat Racing Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 being a new Brumby/Brat owner and wanting to do a wheel conversion makes this all very interesting to me. I to would like to change my wheels but would need it to be a legal modification so that i can keep insuranced. I dont know what the legalitys are for just redrilling the hubs down here in Tasmania but will look into it with the local mag repair/reseller that I know. Cheers Wombat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 I dont know what the legalitys are for just redrilling the hubs down here in Tasmania but will look into it with the local mag repair/reseller that I know. If you do the 6 stud convertion it barely looks not stock. You would have to know that old subies came with a 4 stud pattern. So I think no one would notice. But, remember, if you even touch your car it isn't legal. That's just life. Do the mods. Just make them look legal is what I like to do. What is a insurance man gonna know about an old subie? Next thing you know, I'll be complaining about paying a 1.2 million dollar insurance bill........ lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussi Vortex Posted December 11, 2005 Author Share Posted December 11, 2005 What is a insurance man gonna know about an old subie? More than you may think. I made a claim several years ago, Had "Marque" style mags on, which tracked slightly more than the legal limit. The assessor tried to knock back the claim. The rest of the car , looked like new, ( except for where someone ran into me, hense the claim) the tyres were quality 195 / 60 instead of 185 / 70 and he picked it. (1/2 inch difference either side in width) Insurance guys down here are allways looking for ways to exclude a claim in Australia. Down here , In Aus, you can have up to 2.5cm or 1" wider only than standard track and remain legal. It was only the fact that I had the mags pre approved by the inspections area of the same insurance company and the assessor was pissed off ! If I can, I will keep it legal. Jerry: Machine the front of the hub and mark the bolt circle with the cutter tool then center punch your bolt circle and drill holes. On the back side chuck the hub in the milling machine and mill the bolt holes flat. Pound the studs back in the hub X by 4 then your done. Have you actually done this to an "L" series hub? There is no room that I can find to be able to do this. I am holding the 2 hubs in my hand, one which has the new studs, the other an un modified one. The 4 x 100 bolt pattern on the opposing 45 degree centreline (that the hub bolts up with) are in the way, and there is not enough room to directly go below the original stud holes. My moddded one, is offset slightly from the original studs, and still doesn't leave much room. If I had a working digital camera, I would post a photo. Hopefully you can make my thick skull see how you did it - cause for the life of me, I can't.:-\ thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratsrus1 Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Hi Chris This is Jerry, the bolt patteren i am running is 4 on 4 1/2 inch is the same as toyota car. The bolt patteren is off set slightly. The bolt patteren that you want to run is to small 4 on 100mm is to close to the center of the hub. Thats why i chose toyota and there is all kinds of those wheels. Thanks Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussi Vortex Posted December 11, 2005 Author Share Posted December 11, 2005 This is the hub so far, there is only about 3/16 " (5mm) between the old holes and the edge of the new studs see below: The pattern I want is 4 1/2" (or 114.3mm) std pattern. You can see in the photos, the old holes, new studs and the 4 x 100 hub bolt holes on the inside. On the rear of the hub, there seems to be no room other than to encroach on the fillits of the hub support area (where it bolts to the disk rotor) click to enlarge I suppose this is why the engineer want the holes filled, to give extra strength so close to the old studs. Is this how you did it Jerry? Thanks Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratsrus1 Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Hi Chris This is jerry, yes that is what i did but i move the holes closer to the inside of the rotor mount. There is more room between the bolt holes. I had to mill some of the rotor stand on the back side to get the holes ferther apart. I also cut down the outside diameter of the hub to lighten it up. I drive my hatchback hard in the corners lots of times. I have about 12,000 miles on them and i haven't broke anything yet. Thanks Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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