bergman05 Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 My wife: "that car sucks... I'll never drive it again!". Our first Subaru. First new car in 26 yrs-purchased for the wife-now she refuses to drive it, as she's afraid she'll be stranded. Dealer has checked it out 2 or 3x, but cannot find a problem (no codes have been triggered). Dealer says until a code is triggered, there's nothing they can do. Problem: once in a while, always on a cold start (we purchased in May, and problem began this Fall when it turned cool and humid), the engine refuses to start, even after the starter runs for nearly 10 seconds. According to the owner's manual, the protocol is to then try it with the gas pedal held 1/4 way down; if still no go, then try it again (after 15 seconds) with the pedal floored; if still no go, try it a 3rd time leaving the pedal alone. Check engine light has never come on. Each time it has acted up on me, it will start immediately if I hold the pedal down 1/4 of the way. Recently, however, I had to hold it to the floor to get it to start, and I didn't really like the popping noise it made when it did start (like a stuffed-up tube that finally got cleared of whatever was plugging it up). 8K on the car. ANYBODY ELSE EXPERIENCING THIS? Dealer advice: When asked how long I am letting the starter run, I tell him I usually back off the key after 5-8 seconds, as it seems obvious that it ain't gonna fire. Service manager tells me I can/should hold the key for up to 30 seconds, and this won't hurt the starter motor (owner's manual has a caution to run the starter for no more than 10 seconds at a time). He says it may take 10 seconds or so to build up fuel pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty2Austin Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 sounds like its a tempurature related problem- try putting FULL synthetic oil in it, and use 5w30 or lighter- the oil at less-than 10degs F would be pretty thick, and it may have something to do with this- also only have a subaru shop/dealer do work on it- those jiffy lube places can screw up your car- trust me.. i have had experience fixing problems caused by those places... also, keep MORE than 1/4 tank of gas- any less and you will have moisture problems in the fuel system.. wich will make it not start.. (also, stay away from E85 gas) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bergman05 Posted December 11, 2005 Author Share Posted December 11, 2005 sounds like its a tempurature related problem- try putting FULL synthetic oil in it, and use 5w30 or lighter- the oil at less-than 10degs F would be pretty thick, and it may have something to do with this- also only have a subaru shop/dealer do work on it- those jiffy lube places can screw up your car- trust me.. i have had experience fixing problems caused by those places... also, keep MORE than 1/4 tank of gas- any less and you will have moisture problems in the fuel system.. wich will make it not start.. (also, stay away from E85 gas) I believe it was around 30 to 40 degs F, when the problem 1st reared its head; I change my own oil. I changed the oil at 900 miles, using castrol 5w30; then changed to Mobil 1 5w30 at around 4K, but then went back to castrol 800 miles later, when the subaru tech told me my engine wouldn't be fully broken in until 15K. I'll keep the fuel level tip in mind - thanks! I always try to follow that rule in the coolest 6 months of the year, but I can't say that I noted the fuel tank level when I've had the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I had an old grand am that acted sort of like this. Turned out it was the fuel pump starting to flake out on me. It would work great for a week and then not start for 3 days. My wife got scared of being stranded by it as well so we sold it's rump roast for $450 and bought her a turbo legacy instead now she complains about how much gas it burns. sometimes you just can't win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 cold start problem i would check the ECU engine temp sensor. I would also find another dealer as they dont seem to have a good diagnostician in there. Not being able to fix a car because it hasnt tossed a code is uneccatable, and is going to give you a good hint as to the service in the future. Also you dont want to run a starter for 30 seconds if you can avoid it. If you do iit then walk away thats fine, but do it repeatedly you can overheat the starter. i dont see anything i like about this dealer. if a new car isnt going to start in ten seconds its got a problem. Personally i dont see the connection with oil type or tank level eith this problem. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I would first want to know if the ignition is firing ok when this problem happens. Not every problem will set a code in the ECM. If that is ok then I would check the fuel system for a problem. There may be a leaky injector that is flooding the engine and causing this happen. I would have the dealer change out the PCV valve to see if that may be acting up. They should at least do that for you. This isn't a good thing to have happen on such a new car but that is what a warranty covers. It's just a real inconvienence for the owner. We get new cars so we won't have these kind of problems and it's real frustrating when it happens. Hopefully, your wife will find new passion for the car after this problem is solved and there will be many trouble free miles driven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bergman05 Posted December 12, 2005 Author Share Posted December 12, 2005 cold start problem i would check the ECU engine temp sensor. I would also find another dealer as they dont seem to have a good diagnostician in there. Not being able to fix a car because it hasnt tossed a code is uneccatable, and is going to give you a good hint as to the service in the future. Also you dont want to run a starter for 30 seconds if you can avoid it. If you do iit then walk away thats fine, but do it repeatedly you can overheat the starter. i dont see anything i like about this dealer. if a new car isnt going to start in ten seconds its got a problem. Personally i dont see the connection with oil type or tank level eith this problem. nipper Is the engine temp sensor monitoring the coolant temp? The dealer did verify that the coolant temp sensor was giving an accurate reading. I suspected the ambient air temp sensor, but apparently that checked out OK as well, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 there are two sensors, one for the temp gauge, one for the computer. The computer sensor may have a dead spot in it where its not registering or going open. In a nice warm shop of course it will read right. They need to check it out in the parking lot where the car is cold. and i do agree, nit everything sets a code .. thats why i thin you need a new shop. Also give the area rep a call. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bergman05 Posted December 12, 2005 Author Share Posted December 12, 2005 I would first want to know if the ignition is firing ok when this problem happens. Not every problem will set a code in the ECM. If that is ok then I would check the fuel system for a problem. There may be a leaky injector that is flooding the engine and causing this happen. ------------------- I had the car to the dealer to sit overnite, but of course it started within 2 seconds of turning the key (next morning). They let it sit until mid-PM and tried again; of course, it started immediately. Is there some way that I can diagnose if the ignition is firing properly (when it acts up)? When it does act up, the starter is turning over the engine just fine, and yet the motor still sounds sick somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 The cars seem to know when they are in the shop for trouble and then behave themselves. It's amazing. The easiest trick I know of to see if the ignition is firing without pulling any wires is to get a voltage tester that electricians use. It's a pocket sized tool that you only need to get about 10 inches away from the plugwire while trying to start the car. If the ignition is working, the light inside the tester will flash with the ignition pulses. You can get these at a good hardware store for around $20 dollars. They normally are used to test for power on AC outlets and such. I have thought about building a device that can check for the presence of ignition voltage by placing a pickup on the plugwire and a light that would flash above the hood. I think it would help a lot in problems like these. It could be left on the wire until it is proven good or bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 If it were mine I would change the temp sensor for the computer. They are cheap and often don't throw a code until they are shot. If that does not cure the problem it is time for the dealer to give you a loaner and drive your car until they find the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bergman05 Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 If it were mine I would change the temp sensor for the computer. They are cheap and often don't throw a code until they are shot. If that does not cure the problem it is time for the dealer to give you a loaner and drive your car until they find the problem. thanks for the advice; the car otherwise starts on a dime, even during our recent cold snap here in northcentral WI. It seems that temps just above freezing have plagued it the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Get your area rep involved now. He can hook his laptop to your OBD connector and monitor all parameters real time to catch those incidents which do not set a code. It sounds like your dealer is either incapable of addressing your problem for several reasons or has no motivation to seek a solution. I wasted a lot of new customer good will trying to get my dealer to fix a problem they did not have an interest in fixing. SOA has an interest in keeping you as a customer. Make that the primary point with your district rep. The mechanical aspect of why your car does not perform gets to be the issue instead of the fact that the product is not performing as it is advertised and warrantied by SOA. Make sure that stays in the forefront of your efforts. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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