srponies Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I bought '98 Outback Wagon Ltd. 2 weeks ago at a local auction. The car has 115k, is fully loaded, and has a "bad trans". It also has an engine vibration/misfire and check engine light on. I have no service or maintenance history with the car. I bought this car with the intention of fixing it and reselling it. The body and interior are very clean, and it is loaded with options. I've been doing a lot of reading regarding problems with these (torque bind and head gasket failure). I found a '95 2.2L for $350 and a replacement used trans for the same price, so I'm thinking of just swapping both. I will check the CEL first, because maybe the engine misfire is just a plug wire or sensor, but I wouldn't want to leave anything that I miss for the next owner (like a deteriorating HG). Engine is also somewhat noisy. The current trans is low on fluid, and the fluid color is brown (not so good). The car moves, but movement is almost like a shutter/bind. What are the thoughts out there? Just swap it out or diagnose and repair. Thanks, Steve H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 DO you always change a transmission when just a tranny flush will do? So your trying to diganose a transmission problem without even having a full tranny. First off fill up the transmission then drive the car. if the torque bind is still ther, put the FWD fuse in. If the problem goes away, flush the transmission. Remeber there is no guarentee the replacement tranny is any better then what you have now. Confirm that yours is truly shot, and not just a victum of poor maint. That usually makes the problem go away. Only 10-15% of the 2.5L have head gasket failure. You hear far more about the bad ones here cause this is what this list is for, to help people with sick cars, not to help with healthy ones. Engine noise, do an oil change on it and see what happens. What you may be hearing is piston slap. Does the noise go away after a few minutes? Is the noise always there? This is a quirk of all subarus, and something that is not harmful. If the noise is always there, remove one plug wire and see if the noise changes, then reconnect the wire and go to the next. If the noise changes then you have a connecting rod bearing problem, then i would replace the engine. If neither one of these, you may have valve train issues. Diagnose what the noise is first before you condem the car. Pull the codes on the CEL and see what the problem is. YOu may luck out, and the car may just need a heavy maintanence. ALso if you are worried about what the next buyer may have to deal with, on either engine i would replace the timing belts and water pump. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srponies Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 I knew that I posted on here for a good reason.... I had been figuring to at least check on the CEL. Was also considering a drain and fill on the trans. I will plan to diagnose things correctly first, then repair/swap accordingly. I had also checked the coolant reservoir and it was low, so I was suspecting a head gasket failure. And I was thinking of doing a compression test, but looks like it would take me as long to do that as it would to pull the engine. The local yard said it would only take them 2 days to get me both the engine and trans, so I'll just call them at the appropriate time if needed. I'll be going to Autozone this evening to see if I can rent a scanner to pull codes. I'll also pick up some trans fluid. Thanks for the ideas and info, Steve H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 No need for a compresion test. Just fill up the cooling system and look for bubbles in the radiator. If you wantto know even better, have someone check for exhaust gas in the radiator. I would do that before you do anything else on the engine. Was there any mud in the overflow tank, thats another indicator of an issue. I would still go through the steps of the diagnostics for the transmission. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Depends on how fast you want to turn the car over, srponies. My suggestion would be to take your time, get to know the car and its idiosynracies, do the simplest things first. Nipper made some good suggestions. Also search and study here on the board--there's a wealth of information available. Don't just assume the engine and/or tranny are toast until you can get it drivable and prove it to yourself! And remember, while you and many of us Subie-junkies may see the 2.2 swap as a good way to go, what will a potential buyer think? They may see it as a "step down!" Anyway--ask lotsa' questions and good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srponies Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 When you say mud do you mean chocolate milk shake oil-A/F concoction? Didn't seem to be like that, but the level was really low and it was dark in the reservoir. I have an HC tester, so I'll check for exhaust gasses too. I was just pulling the intake off and noticed the dipstick was gone for the front diff. Hope I didn't get any water in there when I pressure washed the engine compartment. I'll let you know how things are going when I find something. The car also has a rattle on the right side that sounds like a heat shield is loose on the exh. manifold or front cat. Thanks again for the info. Steve H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srponies Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 I was just fiddling with the car and found a few things. I remembered another reason that I was going to replace the trans.... it intermittently won't go into Park. The shifter (handle) moves into position, but the car makes a horrible noise like the parking pawl is trying to catch and just grinds. After that the car may just roll around, not locked in park. Has happened about half of the time I've driven it (load it on trailer, unload it, move it around the driveway, etc.) I checked the code from the CEL and it's P0500, vehicle speed sensor A malfunction. Looks like it's the speed sensor that helps control the AWD. I'll have to do some research on that, too. Steve H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I was just fiddling with the car and found a few things. I remembered another reason that I was going to replace the trans.... it intermittently won't go into Park. The shifter (handle) moves into position, but the car makes a horrible noise like the parking pawl is trying to catch and just grinds. After that the car may just roll around, not locked in park. Has happened about half of the time I've driven it (load it on trailer, unload it, move it around the driveway, etc.) I checked the code from the CEL and it's 0500, vehicle speed sensor A malfunction. I'll have to do some research on that, too. Steve H. Well thats enough reason to replace the transmission. a bad speed sensor (an easy repair) would also affect the operation of the AWD, as the car uses two of them along with a few other widgets to determine how much AWD to apply. This car sounds like it got the snot beaten out of it. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srponies Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 Photos of the car before I bought it: Edit - looks like the website replaced some of the photos of my car with Chevy Blazer pics (the nerve of them) - Edit http://www.waukeganautoauction.com/inventory_show.asp?stknum=36071&show=1 Hope the link works, Edit- Oh well - Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I have one of those in blue. I also bet all the lightbulbs for the climate control and heated seats dont work nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srponies Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 Guess I'll have to check those out and add them to the list. Besides the engine & trans issues the car needs - antenna replaced, frt. LH turn signal assy., front cup holder, minor detailing. Not all too bad. Paid $1700. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 i paid 3700 for mine with 180K on it from the original owner. Only thing it needed was tires (they didnt match causing torque bind) and a transmission flush. Got it back in august, and it was a steal (they had the wrong vin number on ebay). Only thing wrong with it i just found out is a burned out seat heater nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srponies Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 I had a chance to work on the car last night. Pulled #2&4 plugs, they looked good - although a little dark. Compression test on that side - 180 ea. cylinder. Put it back together and started it up. Loud noise on pass. side - found loose Y-pipe heat shield. Put a clamp around it and the car idled quietly, but not perfectly smooth. No CEL now. I cleaned the throttle body- that seemed to help. A few things I'm concerned with: First - the engine has a slight vibration (misfire?) around 1800rpm and then again around 2500rpm. The airbox by the TB vibrates and you can feel it in the drivers seat. Second, when I loaded the engine (via alternator) by turning on all accessories, I am hearing a quiet "dunk dunk dunk dunk" sound from the #1 cylinder area (used a stethoscope). Also, the engine has cam cover, oil pan, and rear main area oil leaks.BTW - the antifreeze in the reservoir had no bubbles while running and is bright green. Haven't tested for exhaust gasses in the coolant yet. Next plan is to pull the timing covers and verify timing marks. Also going to pull 1&3 plugs. Another thing to add... when the engine is cold and the RPM is held between 1500 and 2k, the engine sounds a little like a quiet diesel. I think that's the piston slap going on (but not certain). That $350 2.2 engine and $350 trans are looking pretty good right now. Thanks for any ideas, Steve H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I had a chance to work on the car last night. Pulled #2&4 plugs, they looked good - although a little dark. Compression test on that side - 180 ea. cylinder. Put it back together and started it up. Loud noise on pass. side - found loose Y-pipe heat shield. Put a clamp around it and the car idled quietly, but not perfectly smooth. No CEL now. I cleaned the throttle body- that seemed to help. A few things I'm concerned with: First - the engine has a slight vibration (misfire?) around 1800rpm and then again around 2500rpm. The airbox by the TB vibrates and you can feel it in the drivers seat. Second, when I loaded the engine (via alternator) by turning on all accessories, I am hearing a quiet "dunk dunk dunk dunk" sound from the #1 cylinder area (used a stethoscope). Also, the engine has cam cover, oil pan, and rear main area oil leaks.BTW - the antifreeze in the reservoir had no bubbles while running and is bright green. Haven't tested for exhaust gasses in the coolant yet. Next plan is to pull the timing covers and verify timing marks. Also going to pull 1&3 plugs. Thanks for any ideas, Steve H. Welcome to the world of subaru Heatsheilds are popular problems but easy to fix. I dont know if you discovered the switch on top of the steering column yet. It turns on the parking lights and ONLY the parking lights. There is no indication it has been flipped from inside the car. Oil seal leaks are typical, and im betting that this car never had a timing belt change. If you keep this engine, or swap it, your still going to have to change timing belts, seals, water pump, since you dont know the history on either one. Good news on the antifreeze. Timing is not a problem, as Subarus if they are off one tooth they wont run. Have you done an oil change yet? That may clear up the noise your hearing. Does the noise match engine rpm, or go away with an increase in rpm. Pull the plug wire for that cylinder and see if it goes away. Normally its the pass side cylinder closest to the firewall that will spin a bearing, so i doubt thats the problem, but good to double check. ANOther way to laod up the engine is put it in drive with the parking brake on. Where exaclty are you palcing the stethescope. i do wish to congratulate you for you honesty and dilligance in making sure that you dont screw the next person you sell the car too. A rare trait these days. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srponies Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 I just edited my previous post before I saw your response... The clatter type noise (when cold) is apparent from 1500-2k. The vibration comes in around 1800, disappears, then comes back above 2500. I was listening all over the engine, but heard the dunkdunk noise loudest on #1 cylinder/block area, about 2" from the head gasket surface. I did pull the #2 plug wire (at the coil), but only succeeded in slightly panicking and the engine sputtered and quit - didn't notice any difference in noise (but I was a bit focused on the large spark coming out of the coil). I haven't changed the oil yet. It looks clean, and according to the Oil Express windshield sticker, only has about 500 miles on it. I think that the plugs are aftermarket (Autolite) and the plug wires are Beck-Arnley. The coil looks replaced, too. BTW- all of the heater control lights work and the seat heater toggle lights work, too. Thanks, Steve H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 hehe so you got the one used suabru where all the lights work. Does the engine clatter go away after 5-10 minutes max. Subaurs are known for piston slap, and i am wondering if that is what your hearing. Odd that the car died with just one plug removed. Well at least you know you have a very healthy coil . If you want to try it again, if you have another wire laying around and an old plug, you can put the plug to ground and minimize the exciitement. Granted you dont need the plug to do it, but it does make life easier. an FYI usually subarus are very picky about what plugs and wires they like, but since yours seems happy, i'ld let it go. If later on you have some sort of miss issue, thats the first place i would look. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srponies Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Well I just ordered a replacement engine and trans from a local salvage yard. Engine is a '95 Impreza 2.2 w/ 95k on it. Trans is from a '98 Legacy w/ 110k on it. They were $350 each and come with a 6 month (parts) warranty. I should have them by Tuesday. That should give me time this weekend to shop for some maintenance/repair parts (Timing belt, WP, seals, filters, etc) and maybe get started on pulling the old engine/trans. The trans is in definite need of replacement, the engine just has that vibration and the internal noise. I can't trust it, and hopefully the replacement will be a definite improvement. I'll keep you posted on this swap. Thanks for all the information, Steve H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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