my83subaru Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Hey there all you sub owners Is there more than one kind of front axle shaft that can be put in to my '83 4 WD GL Wagon I just had both of them replaced and was told that these are the new kind of shafts. He said they were like a "tripod" fit. So now everytime I start from a stop sign the whole car shakes, but smooths out when there isn't a load on it. You have any ideas thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOOBOUTLAW Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Shame on you for letting some shady mechanic molest your Subaru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 that guy is a crook. learn to do it yourself. it is suprisingly easy to do with minimal tools. how much he charge you? ps there is a write up on this very thing in the USRM section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Roberts Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Try this, would you? I just did, my new axles seem to have the same problem. Prior thread has "vibration" in the headline. Auto mechanic just put these in brand new. Here's what I find. Shakes on acceleration (worse accelerating and turning, first gear 2wd, from a stop). I've just been out to the car again in the driveway. I reach in and grab the big shiny cylinder near the transmission -- it connects to a smaller golden cylinder (axle?) that goes through a shiny ring and into the side of the transmission (the transmission opening has what looks like a raised picture of the side of a gear on it around that opening). Transmission's dull gray metal. Car's in gear, brake on, weight on the wheels. I can wiggle the big shiny cylinder-- and that moves the axle, and the axle moves inside the shiny ring where it enters the transmission case and the ring moves also -- slightly but noticeably -- both up and down and front to rear. There's a little click as it moves. Both sides, both front axles, have that slight motion about the same. (Remove the mini-spare-tire to reach the left front axle, or crawl under.) That shouldn't wiggle at all -- right? -------------------------------- ------ Experts? We'd just been told after a check yesterday that the axles are "solid" -- maybe the feel solid when the car's up on the lift? I agree doing it yourself is better; I can't, at least not now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 A little play is alright with the Double Offset Joint cup, but not a lot. It totally depends on the rest of the axle, and where the play is comming from. I've seen some pretty loose that drove just fine, and others that seemed fairly tight but caused such serious vibration that the car was very litterally undrivable. It's all about how tight the joint itself is. New (not rebuilt usually) axles should be extremely tight. It could be worn output stub bearings inside the transmission, or poor fitment between the splines in the axle and the splines on the transmission. It is possible to accidentally use a 25 spline axle where a 23 is required, and the roll pin will move the car forward a bit - till it shears the pin off. I doubt that is your problem - more likely the fitment is poor, or the bearings need addressing. They may in fact feel more solid on a lift - the suspension will unspring and the internal joint parts will slide to a position they are not normally at when driving. This position may have no wear and "feel" tighter if checking for play. If the axles are new though (not some crappy rebuild) then I can't see this as possible. But worth a look. Mechanics are in business to make money, and if they can substitute a cheaper part, they usually do. It often results in repeat business when the cheaper part fails, but a lot of people got for the cheapest shop in town (not saying you did), and then bring it back thinking maybe something was done wrong only to find their 90 day warrantee is up, the car is already in peices to "diagnose" the problem, and the shop has another "cheapest in town" repair in mind for them.... it's a nasty cycle. I do beleive that PT Barnum said it best - "You can shear a sheep many times, but you can skin em only once.". I think most shady mechanics have learned this somehow... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Roberts Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Is "Double Offset Joint cup" the place where the axle goes directly into the side of the transmission case? That's where I have play. Here's a picture (20 years newer part). http://www.drive.subaru.com/Fall03/WhatsInside/Shaft.jpg The piece I was moving by hand slightly is the DOJ and from it a smaller cylinder (stub axle? I'm guessing) that goes from the DOJ into the transmission case -- and that smaller piece is what's moving a bit EDIT, transmission rebuilder says the tiny movement I see in the axle is ok; so back to suspecting the DOJ on the brand new front axles. How about you, '83? Old tranny? or not? I'm very curious if you can do the wiggle test I described and tell us if yours move where the axle goes into the transmission case like mine do. Anyhow we both got new "not rebuilt" axles and we both got vibration immediately after they were installed. I wonder if they are the same brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 I have used new, not rebuilt axles in several rigs now, and I did notice a slight increase in vibration on my wagon, but not on my Brat. The wagon is lifted, and has many strange behavioral problems too, so I'm not of the opinion that the new axles are really the problem. The new axles, being very tight, often seem to expose second order vibrations that would not be apparent with a lesser axle.... if you have a rebuilt transmission, and new axles however you shouldn't have ANY play in the joints - they should be rock solid. Something is not right. And yes - DOJ is on the inboard side - the shiny thing you grabbed right where it enters the tranny. The splined front axles as used on the subaru's are not like many other brands - most use a c-clip shaft that slides into the transmission rather than an external stub. Your mechanic may not be familair with this setup. If you can get the mechanic to do it, have him purchase and install GCK brand NEW axles. They are very awesome quality, and I can say I've had great experience with them myself. They are located in CA too.... http://www.gck.com/ GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Roberts Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 ...... if you have a rebuilt transmission, and new axles however you shouldn't have ANY play in the joints - they should be rock solid. Something is not right. And yes - DOJ is on the inboard side - the shiny thing you grabbed right where it enters the tranny.GD OK. That's what we're talking about, all right. Both DOJs move noticeably, they're mounted on the smaller cylinders [EDITED see below] that poke out of the side of the transmission case -- and that's what's moving. Transmission rebuilder says that amount of movement there is Ok, so the problem's somewhere else. I found one 'troubleshooting' book mentioning vibration on acceleration -- Haynes manual at p. 28. It says DOJ, joint angle or worn joints. Nothing in Chilton and nothing in "Keep Your Subaru Alive 2nd ed." How about yours, '83? Where does it wobble when it's standing still? EDITED Maybe something else is moving too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Roberts Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Hey -- should this vibration show up with the car on a rack, driving the front wheels? Should it be possible to see what's shaking with the wheels driven but off the ground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Probably not - the front diff will prevent one wheel from spinning anyway, so you'll only get power to one wheel - probably the one with least resistance, and hence little or no vibration. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Roberts Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 EDIT -- suggestion thanks to the transmission rebuilder -- the local shop that put in new axles failed to align the front wheels, apparently didn't notice the 'knuckle' that holds the bottom of one front strut in place was worn out and couldn't be tightened. Found by a reliable tire place. Hey '83, did you check your new "tripod" front axles? What brand were they you got put on your car before it started shaking under acceleration? EDIT -- and did you get your wheels aligned after new axles? It should be part of the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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