Leg93 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Hello all. So my new to me 98 Outback is showing a problem. Intermittently when I go to start it the starter just spins. Sometimes it grinds and spins. Sometimes it starts just fine. I posted a sound file at this URL: http://www.esnips.com/web/foutsmsOtherStuff Could someone give me some advice? It sounds to me like there are some teeth missing off the flywheel. If this is the case, what do I have to do? How much is gonna cost? I have a 93 Legacy in my driveway. It currently only needs brakes and CV's done, but it's not operational. Can I pirate parts? HELP! Thanks in advance. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Hello all. So my new to me 98 Outback is showing a problem. Intermittently when I go to start it the starter just spins. Sometimes it grinds and spins. Sometimes it starts just fine. I posted a sound file at this URL: http://www.esnips.com/web/foutsmsOtherStuff Could someone give me some advice? It sounds to me like there are some teeth missing off the flywheel. If this is the case, what do I have to do? How much is gonna cost? I have a 93 Legacy in my driveway. It currently only needs brakes and CV's done, but it's not operational. Can I pirate parts? HELP! Thanks in advance. Matt If it is what you think it is, it most likely is a chewed up flywheel, and odds are a bad starter drive. Its rare that this happens on a sooby, so i would suspect a starter drive problem as well. You need to pull the engine or drop the tranny to get to the flywheel. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 You may or may not need a new flywheel, and you most likely need a new starter. Pull the starter off and inspect the teeth. If there is any damage, it's toast. Then, look at the flywheel teeth through the starter hole while barring the engine over (so you can look at all of them). You may have gotten lucky and just damaged the starter, which sometimes happens. It's also possible that there's a bad spot on the flywheel. You should be able to tell pretty easily by doing this, so I'd check it out before making any rash decisions about it. If the need arises, you can probably use parts from the other legacy, but you'd have to look at them and see if they match up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaroo808 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 That happened to my Legacy It sounded like the starter was just spinning I thought there were teeth broken on the flywheel or something. but it turned out to be valves.if yours starts thats not the problem. Maybe try to pull the starter and see if you can see anything broken in there. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Could just be the "yoke" or whatever it's called, that isn't moving the pinion gear forward to engage it in the flywheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leg93 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 Thanks all. The wife and kids are going to the Nutcracker on Saturday. Looks like I'll crack a couple myself and work on the car in the driveway while they are gone. Anybody want to have a repair party? Time's like this make me glad I live without a garage in Northern Utah as opposed to Michigan or Toronto...I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Thanks all. The wife and kids are going to the Nutcracker on Saturday. Looks like I'll crack a couple myself and work on the car in the driveway while they are gone. Anybody want to have a repair party? Time's like this make me glad I live without a garage in Northern Utah as opposed to Michigan or Toronto...I guess. i guess you have to pull the starter to check it out. but you could always use the opening to the flywheel (and a mirror) on the other side of the car, (where you lock down the fly wheel when tightening the crank puley bolt) to check the flywheel teeth. if no damage , it has to be the starter. then when you do remove the starter, you'll have the needed parts on hand to complete the job. if damaged, drive to michigan, wait for snow, slush is better, and do the work on the side of the road, in a puddle, at night, alone, where they don't sell beer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leg93 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 lol. They don't sell beer in Utah either...technically. I don't drink anyways. I'm thinking I'll buy a starter on Friday, just so I have it, then do it all on Saturday. Since the wife will be gone I will be stuck with a dismantled car and not able to get parts once I've torn in to it. This is my favorite past time!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leg93 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 That happened to my Legacy It sounded like the starter was just spinning I thought there were teeth broken on the flywheel or something. but it turned out to be valves.if yours starts thats not the problem. Maybe try to pull the starter and see if you can see anything broken in there. Jason Jason, how was that the valves? Could you tell me more? I'm sure that's not what's going on here, but you have got me curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Jason, how was that the valves? Could you tell me more? I'm sure that's not what's going on here, but you have got me curious. Let me take a few gueses before we hijack the thread. If there is no compression the starter motor will spin really fast, and sound completly differnt. So if he has poor sealing/beant valves or a broken timing belt it will sound differnt. Now if anyone here has ever head a flywheel with borken chewed up teeth, it really is unmistakable. The grinding of the gear or the spinning of an unloaded starter is very unique. If the gear is chewed up and barely making contatc, sometimes the vibratcion of the starter will be enough to slightly turn the flywheel to a good tooth. The tooth isnt broken per se, just badly worn. A visual inspection can be done , but its a tooth by tooth operation. The noise itself is all one needs to hear. It doesnt matter if its a bad starter drive or solenoid, if its bad ehough to grind, then the teeth are damaged. You can replace the starter and see if that helps. Sometimes thats enough. What can cause this? A hairline crack in the flywheel, more likely a bad starter drive. The Spring in the drive can be broken or weak, and allow the drive to creep onto the flywheel, or retract very late. You wont here this happen most of the time, and even when you can, it is usually associated with an old car noise. The over running clutch in the drive can be bad, the solenoid can be sticking, the starter motor bushings can be worn. No matter what the condition of the flywheel, the starter wilhave to be replaced. Its very rare on suabaru that this just happens, more common on GM and Fords where it may not be the starters fault, and even then rare on a fwd car. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virrdog Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Once on my '93 Legacy after a day at the road course the starter began making a funky noise. It was the most awful noise. I was worried about my lightweight flywheel teeth, didn't want to drop another $400 for another one or replace it with a crazy-heavy stock one. Ends up the ground wire for the solenoid was broken, but the ends were still close together and intermittantly making contact... so the solenoid was going in and out, in and out, in and out. So it kept re-engaging the flywheel once it started to spin until the car started. The flywheel teeth were fine. So I second the notion to pull the starter and inspect all teeth. Then just install the new one, you should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaroo808 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Jason, how was that the valves? Could you tell me more? I'm sure that's not what's going on here, but you have got me curious. I dont really know "how" it was the valves I just know the timing belt broke I took it to the mechanic and he and the machine shop said they were bent. Sorry not more help. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leg93 Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 I couldn't figure out the flywheel inspection port, I couldn't find it. So I just changed the starter...$188 at Checker - $35 core charge. The teeth on the starter were rounded like the tip of a worn philips screwdriver. I haven't had a starting problem since I changed it. We'll give it a week to be sure. About an hour of driving time after doing the repairs my check engine light came on. I'll have the codes read today and see what I knocked loose. Woops! Thanks all for your help and suggestions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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