Digger19 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I will start off with Friday morning, took the rear brake rotors in to have them turned. Had a vibration under braking and this had fixed the problem twice before. That was the only problem. Reinstalled the rotors. Took the car for a drive. Never fixed the vibration( I think I will do the fronts), but do I ever have a horrific noise/squeal coming from the right rear wheel, but not all the time. Never under load with the throttle pushed. Almost always under deceleration, no matter how slight. Goes away when accelerator is pushed back in. Worse with speed. Ear piercing at 100kph. Took the brakes back apart nothing wrong, nothing rubbing yada yada. Even went as far as backing the park brakes pads off almost completely and swapping the removable parts from one side to the other to see if the problem moved. Then I put the fuse in to engage the FWD only. Problem went away. That would leave a differential problem, but the noise is definitely from the right rear wheel, so I think I can rule that out. A wheel bearing, but I figure I would hear it with the rear drive engaged or disengaged. Lastly a drive axle, and this is what I suspect. Especially because it reacts to power train loading and unloading, and goes away with the rear wheel drive disengaged. Would like to know if I should be looking somewhere else or would my thinking be correct?. What astounds me if this is the case is the only thing I did was jack the car. Nothing was wrong before this. Could the extended travel of the suspension while jacked have caused a joint failure in the axle? Looks as if these are expensive little units. Want to make sure I am changing the right piece before I order one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 How many times have you had the rotors cut? Rotors dont have a lot of meat on them, and the more you cut them, the more they will warp. Its just easier to replace the rotors (and sometimes cheaper) then repeatedly cutting them. What do you mean by rear drive engaged? This has no bearing on bearings. The bearing always carries the load of the car, no matter what the driveline is doing. Rear axles rarely go bad, and this would not cause it. If it was bad it would click like a front one. Check your parking brake to make sure its seated properly. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger19 Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 First cut on rotors I replaced 18 months ago. Only took about .005" off this time. I agree I don't think it is the wheel bearings, as the sound would have not went away when I put in the FWD fuse. Similarly, if the park brake was not seated properly, the noise would not disappear with the FWD fuse in either. I checked the park brake installation twice to make sure everything was all in tact when I first encountered the problem just to make sure. The only things that are affected with the FWD fuse in or removed is whether there is power to the rear wheels or they are in a glide mode all the time. To me the only things therefore affected by power on/off is the differential and the axle. As I can definitely or at least I think I can definitely say the noise appears to be from the R/H wheel, I am leaning toward the cv joint on the axle. I can have it rebuilt for about $75. I thought about the clicking, but ussually you dont get that on a front axle until you are turning and the joint angle becomes more acute. The joint angle on the aft axle is rather flat and the clicking may not be as obvious. With the fuse out I had the noise none stop. With the fuse in I drove 70 miles today to work and back and had no noise at all. I will take it out tomorrow to see if the noise returns, and go from there. The noise is a very high pitched squeal. Reminds me of a dull tool on a metal lathe cutting hard steel at a high speed. But I see no metal anywhere. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Rear cv joints dont squeel when they go bad. Rear cv joints seldom go bad because they only have 30% of the stress of the front. Examin the wheel bearing. Try driving a very short distance with the parking brake on to see what happens to the noise. The squeel with the fuse in vs out has me thrown. Check the backing plate of the break to make sure its not touching the disc. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 my vote is for wheel bearings. did you try turning the wheel/hub by hand and seeing how much play or noise/roughness is in the hub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger19 Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 I removed the fuse this morning. Screech was still there. Interestingly though at highway speeds, when I lift slightly from the throttle, the noise is tremendous. Slip the tranny into neutral and the noise goes away. Put it back into gear and the noise returns. Definitely is the right wheel. I ordered a rear wheel bearing today as the more I think about things the more I lean toward the bearing. Strange though how the first incling I got that there was a problem was immediately after I did the rotors. Can only conclude that the jacking process caused a possibly marginal bearing to become more marginal. Will now for sure Thursday morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger19 Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 Had a busy few days. Changed the timing belt on the front end and changed out the r/h rear wheel bearing. The bearing did not fix the noise. The noise though is more of a slight howl at low speeds and progresses to a overwhelming squeal with some body rattling at highway speeds. Further to my previous information, while the noise is much more pronounced on decelleration, and not present at all in FWD only or under a heavy throttle load, I can hear it faintly while cruising as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 have you checked the driveshaft carrier bearing? Where it bolts to the floor could transmit to the area of the rear wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger19 Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 I thought about the drive shaft/ differential etal. Had my wife sit in the back seat on the passenger side today.She definitely said the noise is to her right and behind, which leads me to the right rear wheel again. Only thing left there that moves that I have not replaced is the axle. May look to a wrecker for a used one. Will look further at the drive shaft components as well when I have it up. On a side note when I replaced the rear wheel bearing and put it back together, came up with an ABS fault. I know I bent the backing plate a bit trying to press out the bearing. I see the sensor gap is probably about .100" or more and I attribute that to the fact that I did not get the plate straight enough. I am assuming that this is what is causing the fault light. If not I would hate to think about the cost of a new sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger19 Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 Okay, but not okay. Fixed the ABS fault I created. Changed the r/h rear drive axle. Still have the problem with the howl. I am going to change my characterization of the noise to a howl that can be heard as the car slows down and gears down (city driving), as well as a higher pitched howl with an extreme metallic vibration (short lived) that comes immediately after I let my foot off of the throttle at highway speeds. If I listen closely I think I can hear it even under light throttle loads at 30-50 MPH. Still believe it is coming from the r/h side but not so sure. Crawled back under the car, both wheels off the ground. Turned the drive shaft by hand. Feels very smooth and quiet. Grabbed the l/h axle while turning the driveshaft. Feels smooth with some slight pulling of the axle once in a while. Grabbed the r/h axle while turning the driveshaft. Smooth for most of it, then repeatedly and sudddenly I can feel the r/h axle start to want to rotate in my hands. Have to hang on much tighter to prevent it from turning in my hand. Could this be a bearing failure in the r/h output of the differential, and the sound I am hearing is the howl of a bad rear end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Differential howel is a very unique sound. Its a roar that has a volume that increases with road speed. Its rare for a diff to go bad but it happens. Have you drained the diff to see if there is any metal in the lubricant? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Were did you place the jack when jacking the car up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger19 Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 Were did you place the jack when jacking the car up? I usually use a 2x4 and jack on the body panel(same location you would use the factory jack) just forward of the wheel well, then place an axle stand under the body attach point just forward of the trailing arm forward attach point. When I did the r/h brake I had positioned the floorjack in such a manner that I could not get the axle stand in. I started to lower the jack then I heard a clunk. I had for gotten to move the axle stand out of the way and it had caught the edge of the trailing arm at the forward end and then flipped out of the way. Doesn't appear to be any damage to the trailing arm or the bushing though, unless I am missing simething. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger19 Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 Question: If when I caught the axle stand on the trailing arm when I lowered the car, could a damaged bushing on the fwd end of the trailing arm cause driveline vibrations and gear noise to be transmitted through the frame/body of the car. The lowering of the car onto the axle stand was the only abnormal thing that happened when I initially ground and reinstalled the rotors. It is not brakes as braking makes no difference in the sound, and the dust plates are all well clear of the rotors. I checked the bushing on the trailing arm as good as I could in situ but not sure if that is really a practical way to check its servicability The more I try to isolate the noise, which when lifting off the throttle at highway speeds sound more like a high frequency metallic vibration/rattle, it sounds like it is coming from the r/h side of the car just fwd of the rear wheel well. At lower speeds 30kph and slowing down I hear what sounds like the whirring sound of gears being slowed down. At 50-70 KPH as a rule I hear nothing. What noise cuold I expect to hear if the drive shaft center bearing is coming apart and could I expect any other symptoms from it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Just inboard of the jack point on the pinch rail, in front of rear tires, is the mounting point of the crossmeber that supports the front of the rear differential. If the lower part of the body mounting plate is bent up and touching the crossmember, you will get a considerable noise on decel. If this is as clear as mud, let me know, I could get some pics and post them up. I'm thinking you may have bent this jacking the car up. If you have a floor jack, jack under the center of the rear diff. This way you lift both tires at the same time and don't have to worry about damaging anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger19 Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 Thank you WAWAlker. You hit it right on. Just a shame that I spent $150 and far too many hours repairing something that in the end took only 15 minutes to ultimately fix. And to think that some people think that the internet is a waste of time and resources. Couldn't have resolved this without it. Once again, Thanks to everyone who put their two bits worth in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Thank you WAWAlker. You hit it right on. Just a shame that I spent $150 and far too many hours repairing something that in the end took only 15 minutes to ultimately fix. And to think that some people think that the internet is a waste of time and resources. Couldn't have resolved this without it. Once again, Thanks to everyone who put their two bits worth in bad Digger no biscuit WAWAlker gets your biscuit nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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