mnwolftrack Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Greetings all, I will be starting my '98 OBW auto tranny swap this weekend. Just checking to see if I am covering my bases on stuff: I am picking up (from a dealer tomorrow) the rear main seal for the engine, front output shaft seal on the transmission, torque converter shaft seal, and rear output shaft seal, plus the obvious new ATF. I am assuming the salvage yard I bought the transmission from drained the front diff fluid too. Is that ATF or gear lube (or other)? Apparently, there's no tranny filter, and the pan just needs silicone (according to dealer). I am contemplating swapping any sensors over from the original tranny to the new tranny, simply because the old tranny wasn't throwing any codes and otherwise worked fine besides a noisy front pump (thanks for the help nipper). Finding a Haynes manual around here is proving to be impossible. I even ordered one from a local barnes and noble over a week ago and they can't even give me an ETA. I have access to a free online Chilton's through a library, but the Chilton's sinks. I'm still a little nervous about making sure the torque converter is seated properly in the transmission before mating it back up to the engine, but I think I'll be ok. The salvage yard that sent me the new tranny bolted a metal bracket in place over the torque converter so it won't come out. However, I have no idea if it already slipped out and they just slid it back on quickly, or if it's properly seated. I will have to watch closely as I take my '98's tranny out. I'm still contemplating whether I'll pull the engine/tranny together, or just the tranny. I will put it up on ramps tonight and maybe jack up the rear and see how much room that gives me. The tranny is definitely heavier than I was expecting (Toyota 4x4 pickup 5-speed transmissions are only about 100 lbs minus the transfer case). I can't wait for the weekend though. Not only will I hopefully get the tranny swapped in about 5 hours per shop book time, but we (Minnesota) are expected to get anywhere from 8 to 20+ inches of snow this weekend in a 'big storm'. We haven't had more than 22" all season, and we normally get a lot more. The east coast has been taking all our snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hocrest Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Greetings all, I will be starting my '98 OBW auto tranny swap this weekend. Just checking to see if I am covering my bases on stuff: I am picking up (from a dealer tomorrow) the rear main seal for the engine, front output shaft seal on the transmission, torque converter shaft seal, and rear output shaft seal, plus the obvious new ATF. I am assuming the salvage yard I bought the transmission from drained the front diff fluid too. Is that ATF or gear lube (or other)? Gear fluid, check your manual for the type. Apparently, there's no tranny filter, and the pan just needs silicone (according to dealer). I've used a gasket on all the pan's I've had off. You can get italong with an internal filter from most parts stores. I am contemplating swapping any sensors over from the original tranny to the new tranny, simply because the old tranny wasn't throwing any codes and otherwise worked fine besides a noisy front pump (thanks for the help nipper). Finding a Haynes manual around here is proving to be impossible. I even ordered one from a local barnes and noble over a week ago and they can't even give me an ETA. I have access to a free online Chilton's through a library, but the Chilton's sinks. I'm still a little nervous about making sure the torque converter is seated properly in the transmission before mating it back up to the engine, but I think I'll be ok. I replied in your other post about seating the TC, it really isn't that hard. The salvage yard that sent me the new tranny bolted a metal bracket in place over the torque converter so it won't come out. However, I have no idea if it already slipped out and they just slid it back on quickly, or if it's properly seated. I will have to watch closely as I take my '98's tranny out. I'm still contemplating whether I'll pull the engine/tranny together, or just the tranny. I will put it up on ramps tonight and maybe jack up the rear and see how much room that gives me. You'll need to have the front wheels in the air so you can spin them around to disconnect the axles from the tranny. You can pull the tranny without removing the axles completely, but it is a lot easier to move it out of and into position with the axles out of the way. The tranny is definitely heavier than I was expecting (Toyota 4x4 pickup 5-speed transmissions are only about 100 lbs minus the transfer case). I can't wait for the weekend though. Not only will I hopefully get the tranny swapped in about 5 hours per shop book time, 5 hours good luck... but we (Minnesota) are expected to get anywhere from 8 to 20+ inches of snow this weekend in a 'big storm'. We haven't had more than 22" all season, and we normally get a lot more. The east coast has been taking all our snow. We've had one storm for a total of 6" don't blame us Reply is in red... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hocrest Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Here is a link to tranny swap procedures written by one of the members over at subaru-svx.net It is written for the SVX, so there will be some differences, but for the most part it should be close. You can disregard all of the procedures dealing with the rear end. That is only needed if you swap a transmission with a different final drive ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 There is a odd little seperator plate behind the engine that is usually plastic. This WILL leak at some time. The replacement is metal. You need to replace that too. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnwolftrack Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 Thanks for all the replies. I got eager so I actually started tonight. Following the Hayne's manual (found one local at the last minute--whew!), I'm on step 16 of 24 for removal. Basically what I have left is to remove the driveshaft, disconnect the axles, remove the cross member, remove the lower tranny-to-engine bolts, and drop 'er down. Everything else is done and was easy as mac and cheesy (removing intake tubing, starter, wire harnesses, exhaust, shifter linkage, torque converter bolts). The car is up on ramps in front and jackstands in the rear. Regarding the seperator plate, the original 2.5 is gone in favor of a 2.2 per previous owner. I will see what plate is in there and see if it needs to be replaced. So far, this car has been a cake walk to work on. I've spent 2 hours so far, no air tools (felt like doing it the old fashioned way tonight). Up to this point, it's definately been easier to work on than full frame trucks and SUV's. We'll see what the rest of the disassembly is like.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnwolftrack Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 One more dumb question. Is there a pilot bearing hiding on the back of the engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 no pilot bearing, manual trans only for those. gear oil in your front diff - drain and fill all fluids in the "new" trans. check owners manual like dave suggested. you can leave the pan, no need to remove it or worry about sealing it. some newer soobs have sealant, no gasket. not sure when that change occurs. there is absolutlely no need to replace the internal "filter", it's not a filter at all. it's a screen. it doesn't collect anything, just prevents stuff from getting sucked up and circulated by the pump. i replaced a few only to find out it's pointless. as long as you know and are concerned about seating the torque conveter, you'll be fine. check it and double check it. don't assume the one from the parts yard is seated fully and don't assume your is seated fully either. when you separate the engine and trans it can pull out, sometimes the TC sticks completely to the engine and comes out with it..if it has the clearance of course. probably not on yours since it's newer but still wouldn't trust that it didn't move at all. good luck sounds like all is going well. not sure with the newer EJ 4EAT's but the older ones have a ring seal around the torque converter shaft. if yours has that i would replace it. that's subaru only. the rear output shaft is a toss up, they're easy enough to replace in the car and don't leak too often so it's not necessary. i'd probably replace it while the trans is sitting on the floor though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnwolftrack Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 Thanks--I did get the torque converter shaft seal. I'm basically replacing all the easy seals as long as the new tranny is out in the open. I want to reseal the pan on the new tranny because it looks like it was leaking anyway. It may have been engine oil blown back to the tranny, something spilled at the salvage yard, or who knows. Someone must have done a full tranny flush previously because it's got orange RTV now (and I'm assuming OEM sealant wasn't orange). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 was that torque converter shaft seal a small circlip looking "C" shaped graphite type ring? those are the ones i've seen, wondering if this is the same? odd piece if we're talking about the same one. funny you say that, the last 1997 Auto trans i pulled had RTV all around it as well, i thought it was odd since it was a one owner vehicle and had never had any major work done to it. it had never had the trans pulled that i know of, but surely it could have. it was orange as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnwolftrack Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 I haven't actually picked up the seals yet, so I can't say for sure. I just asked the parts guy on the phone to order me the torque converter shaft seal. I will know more later today when I pick it up. Looking back at the other post, it was you that mentioned replacing the c-shaped graphite seal (which is what I asked the dealer to order me). He had a little trouble finding it, and thought it was teflon, but he eventually found a torque converter shaft seal. But there is a chance this year (1998) doesn't have the graphite c-shaped seal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnwolftrack Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 was that torque converter shaft seal a small circlip looking "C" shaped graphite type ring? those are the ones i've seen, wondering if this is the same? odd piece if we're talking about the same one. I picked up the seals yesterday, and the torque converter seal is the goofy looking graphite "C" shaped. It's actually more of a ring with a split in it, not so much a "C". Of course, out of the 4 seals I needed, they managed to loose one of them between me calling them to make sure all seals were in before driving to pick them up, and 45 minutes later when I actually arrived. Luckily, it was just the rear output shaft seal (so I can still get the new tranny back in). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 that's the seal, the one i can't describe, definitely not like any other seal. the rear output shaft seal is really easy to replace with the trans in the car, so that's a good one for them to "loose". good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnwolftrack Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 Yes, definately got lucky! Of course, they called me about 4 hours after I already picked up the other 3 seals to tell me they found it. By the time I got the voice mail, they were already closed. I just got the transmission out and am now on a pizza break, then off to get ATF, gear oil, and engine oil if I don't have enough. I'm going to reseal the oil pan, tranny pan, and flush all 3 fluids. So far this has been really "easy" compared to other things I've worked on. I've got 6 hours into the removal, but that was with going REALLY slow labelling things, staring at things, and removing crumblies that fall into my eyes. I've got the torque converter "last 1/4 inch" figured out. The salvage yard that sent me the replacment transmission had a very good idea for keeping the torque converter in place, and I took it off and put it on the old torque converter when I had enough of a gap between the engine and transmission to get it installed. It's nothing more than a bolt going through the upper passenger tranny-to-engine bolt hole, a nut, two washers, and a "lazy V-shaped" piece of flat metal that is bolted in place and presses against the TC to keep it in place. I am positive my original torque converter was and is fully seated during removal. Before I even begin pulling the transmission away, I used a pry bar in the upper inspection hole and gently pushed the TC back about 1/8" so that I could spin the TC with my fingers (someone mentioned I should be able to do this during reinstall before I put the TC bolts back in). I pulled the tranny away about 1/8" and pushed on the TC again, though I could tell in relation to the flex plate that it had moved with the tranny and did not stick to the engine. I then used the pry bar between the engine and tranny mating surfaces and continued to push the two apart until I could get the bolt, washers, nut, and bent piece of metal in place to hold down the TC. It worked very well. I didn't have any issues seperating the tranny and engine or making sure the TC stayed in place. I probably had better than average luck though. The new tranny TC is seated just as far back as the old tranny, so I am sure they are both seated right. I'm still going to pull out the new tranny TC so I can replace the front seal and that goofy graphite seal. If the subaru dealer parts dept. is still (or even) open today, I will pick up the rear output shaft seal. As long as the new tranny is out in the open, it would take a mere minute to swap seals. Thanks for everyone's help. Now I just have to hope the new tranny is actually good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 awesome, glad it's going so well. keep an eye on that ring seal, it can be confusing on where along the shaft they are supposed to set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 So, Mr. Wolf. How is the A/T swap going? Please update us. I am thinking you must have run into unexpected difficulties? Hope not! I am going to be executing the same drill very soon. What's up? Mike V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnwolftrack Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 Actually, it's done! It went rather well, I've driven the car a bit and the new (used) transmission works great. The things I was most worried about were the easiest, and it was the little things that were a bit of a bugger (it had nothing really to do with it being a subaru, the design, or some other inherent thing about subaru's). I was just having a bad day I think. Note to self: buy transmission jack or buy adapter plate from Northern Tool for $45 to convert my regular floor jack to a transmission jack. I can provide additional details later. I just haven't had time to post a more detailed follow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 did you actually use an adapter plate for your jack? i talked to someone that said the one they used sucked and was not usable with Subaru transmissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnwolftrack Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 No, I didn't actually use one. I thought about getting one. I could also build something myself though too, but for $45 it's not worth my time. Even if the Northern Tool product doesn't work as-is, I can then re-work it to make it work. I have a welder and what-not and can fabricate something if need be. What I actually used, is what I normally do on toyota manual transmissions. I laid a 1"x10" board across the 6 inch base "cup" of my regular floor jack (not one of those wimpy $30 from walmart), put the transmission on it, then use racheting tie downs around it and the jack cup and jack lift arm so that it can't fall off. It gives me enough wiggle room to pull the front or back of the transmission up/down an inch or so, but not enough to fall off. I wouldn't recommend this method though unless you can assure stability. The Subaru transmission did not work this way as nicely because the tranny pan is not nice and flat and is darn close to not having a good center balance point. The balance point is at the front of the pan in the middle. It was doable, but I had to work extra slow and have a second set of hands stabilizing the transmission as I moved the jack around under the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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