desperate Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Car ran 2 months ago. pulled the passenger side head off to fixed a stripped oil line hole. Timing is set perfectly, I've got spark, I've got fuel. All vacuum lines are hooked up. The distributor is set according to the haynes manual. My firing order is hooked up according to the haynes manual as well. The knock sensor is broken, but it was broken the last time the car ran. This one has my stumped. It will crank over no problem, just won't fire up. doesn't even sound like it is trying to turn over. thanks guys anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 If you used that manual to time the timing belts then that's wrong. Haynes forgot to mention the engine needs to be rotated one revolution after the first belt is installed. Also possible the rockers on that side fell out of position. Need to pull valve cover and verify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4WDFrenzy Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 +1 for Timing. As you know, there are 3 things needed for combustion, Spark, Fuel, and Air. Well if you have spark and fuel, then you need air, which sounds like valve timing to me. John is right about the Haynes manual and the timing belt issue. They don't tell you about rotating the engine a full revolution after installing the first belt. But don't feel bad, you aren't the first person that this has happened to, and you probably won't be the last.(Hello Haynes, HELLO?!!!). -Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperate Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 motor was rotated so the timing marks on the cam gears were 180 from each other. Made that mistake the first subaru I had. Also already thought about the rocker arms, dropped the valve cover hoping to see that one had come off, but all rocker arms are in place as they should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4WDFrenzy Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Okay, well it is good that you already know about the timing belt situation in the Haynes manual. Anthony, I'm not sure what to tell you as this seems to be a very mystefying issue. I'll have to think about this one for a bit and get back to you. -Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Thinking maybe the problem is the distributor is not timed correctly. You seem sure it is timed correctly but just how did you reach this conclusion? I often drop the distributor in 180 degrees off. Any chance the rotor is loose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4WDFrenzy Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 You know, come to think of it, I had a similar problem when I changed my clutch in my GL-10. No sooner did we(my friend Spencer [who also happens to be the previous owner] and I) get the transmission bolted back to the engine and the battery hooked back up, it would start. I wound up having to have a him turn the distributor while I cranked the engine over. It took awhile, but we finally got it running close enough where I was able to drive it home, and then did a little more fine tuning when I got it there. I would try what John is suggesting. At this point, what do you have to lose, right? Give it a shot and let us know what happens. - Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperate Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 the distributor wasn't taken off when I pulled the passenger side head off. and it ran fine before that. I tried losing the bolt up and turning it while I had some one crank it over, and it made no difference at all. Head was torqued down correctly, and it never rained or anything while I had the head off, no rust, even surface rust on the cylinder walls when I put the head back on it. on the distributor there are 2 "ears" for bolts to go through, with those sitting on top of the bolts corresponding holes, can the disty still be 180 out? disty hasn't been touched since it last ran. I did check the rotor button to make sure it was tight and it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85T-REX Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Your cams may be 180 from each other but what direction are they pointing when the flywheel is at 0deg tdc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Since the engine ran before the work was done and the distributor was not touched, it shouldn't be a problem. Just about out of ideas here. You did use the 3 ines on the flywheel to to time the belts? Recheck the spark plug wires routing. Unplug the engine wiring harness and reconnect everything. Sometimes a plug is overlooked and other times not fully seated. Check for an overlooked grounding strap. Also check all the fusible links and all the fuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4WDFrenzy Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 the distributor wasn't taken off when I pulled the passenger side head off. and it ran fine before that. My distributor wasn't removed either, but my car wouldn't start after we got everything back together. The only thing I did is disconnect the battery terminals from the battery. The point is, you may need to poke and prod things to find out what is wrong and as John said, you may have to check and re-check things. It is very easy to overlook things, especially electrical. A good rule of thumb is, never underestimate the things that can go wrong with a car that is 20 some-odd years old. It will only add to the frustration of the original problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I just skimmed back through this whole thread quickly to see if this wa mentioned, so forgive me if I missed it.. but how did you confirm fuel? Are the spark plugs wet when you pull them out? Did you listen to check to see if the injectors are firing? If not, its easy; get a large screwdriver, hold the tip against the base of the injectors, one at a time, while someone cranks the engine. the injector should click audibly, and it will be transferred into your ear like a stethoscope. Is the spark good and blue and hot? Did you jiggle around with the wiring to the fusible link block at all? My car has a very distinct weak point right there... just some thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperate Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 theres a injector test I didn't remember. I'll try that as soon as I can get back to the car. hot blue spark, tried the fusible link thing, even moved a few around with no effect. I'll do the screwdriver test on the injector and if I can confirm fuel with that I'll try unplugging and replugging everything then flipping the disty around 180 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Have you made sure the fuel pump is running? Connect the green connectors under the hood near the wiper motor, then turn the key to On (not start). The solenoids under the hood and the fuel pump should pulse on-off on 1 second intervals. If the pump doesn't run, there's your problem. Try hitting it I smelled gas in the intake once working on a car with an intermittent no start issue. Turned out the fuel pump had a bad spot on it where it wouldn't start sometimes. -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy FitzGibbon Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Haynes forgot to mention the engine needs to be rotated one revolution after the first belt is installed. Actually Haynes DOES tell you to do this, but they don't make it very clear at all, and it's easy to miss if you don't already know it needs to be done. In my book it tells you to do it in step 34 of the timing belt procedure (Chapter 2 part B, section 5) but it is only one sentence at the end of the paragraph and easy to read over. They should have made it it's own step in the procedure. Anthony, I'm assuming you didn't mess with the driver's side timing belt when you took the pass. side head off. So theoretically at least the driver's side cam and distributor should still be in correct time, since it ran before. Even if the pass. side cam was out of time somehow, it should be at least trying to fire on the two DS cylinders. That makes me think it's an electrical problem somewhere else- possibly fuel delivery related? I don't have a lot of experience working on SPFIs and zero on MPFIs, so can't really give you anything specific to look for. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 make sure you lined the timing belt with the 3 lines and mot the 0degbtdc marks http://www.economysuperstar.com/milesfox/subaru/service/timingbelt.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 MilesFox may be on to something there about the timing marks. I would hold off pulling the disty since it wasn't pulled out. I think the disty is turned by the driver side cam so that should be ok if that is so. You could do a compression check to see what that shows you, especially the passenger side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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