bansheercr Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I plan on replacing the head gaskets with the motor in the car? Do you have to remove the cams or can I leave them in the head so I don't disturb the buckets/ shims when I take the heads off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 it can be done in the car. there's a really good page linked elsewhere that someone created with lots of detailed information of the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 EJ25 dohc phase 1 you will have to pull the cam pullies and then the cams to get the heads off. It can be done in the car, but it makes the job a LOT harder. It's very easy to pull the engine out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomson1355 Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 As a novice mechanic, I've done three HGs leaving the engine in place. I've pulled two for clutches. If i didn't have to do the clutch, I'd do the HGs in the car again. For me, pulling the engine is not as easy as Subaru 360 makes it sound, but I bet he's more experienced than I am. I find it nerve-wracking to get everything lined upand home again. OTOH, i'm using abucket loader. An engine lift would make the job easier. The only truly annoying part is removing the rear lower valve cover bolts. A flat 10mm ratcheting wrench helps with this. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansheercr Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 As a novice mechanic, I've done three HGs leaving the engine in place. I've pulled two for clutches. If i didn't have to do the clutch, I'd do the HGs in the car again. For me, pulling the engine is not as easy as Subaru 360 makes it sound, but I bet he's more experienced than I am. I find it nerve-wracking to get everything lined upand home again. OTOH, i'm using abucket loader. An engine lift would make the job easier. The only truly annoying part is removing the rear lower valve cover bolts. A flat 10mm ratcheting wrench helps with this. Tom Thanks for the tips.I really value all the advice I can get.Me and a co worker are going to tackle the HG next weekend.I see some that replace the o -ring on the oil pump.Should I do the same?I'm working out of the Haynes manual and they call for anerobic sealant,would RTV black be sufficient?Also did you just put all the shims back as they were or did you have to change some to get the desired clearance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Hi bansheercr. I'm working out of the Haynes manual and they call for anerobic sealant,would RTV black be sufficient?I'm assuming you're talking about resealing the oil pump. The Subaru alternative is Permatex Ultra Grey RTV. Anaerobic sealant is a great product but is harder to use successfully than RTV; hence I think why Subaru says RTV. Yes while you are doing this job it is prudent to do/check depending on age/mileage a number of things including front cam seals, crank seal, oil pump rear case screws for backing out, cam retainer o-rings if the engine has them, replace water pump, replace geared/toothed idler near water pump and check the other idlers. Oil pump o-ring part #/style varies depending on engine/year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansheercr Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 Thanks for the reply Porcupine 73.The OBW has 105,000. I replaced the cam,crank seals,water pump,timing belt,and a bottom idler at 90,000 only to find the head gaskets faulty later to which I should have known by the residue in the coolant resivoir tank.last week I opened the tank while the engine was running and seen the bubbles.This week I want to gain as much know how as possible as the head gaskets are coming out fri. night.I will be getting an oil pump oring now due to this helpful forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomson1355 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Have you seen this page? http://home.comcast.net/~skipnospam/Head_gasket_replacement.html I used it a lot on my first HG. He pulled the engine because he did the clutch at the same time but a lot of the info is useful even if you decide to leave the engine in. I think Ultra Grey is the sealant most of the gurus around here use. If you search on HGs you'll find a lot of excellent threads which will refer to the sealant. Don't know about RTV black. On the first HG I was very careful on the shims and buckets and got several new shims trying to bring the specs to perfection. Ont he other two I was happy if I had .005" clearance and didn't change any of them. Obviously you have to be very careful not to mix up shims and buckets. As to returning them to OEM specs, I just don't know. Depends how particular you are, what you plans for the car are, etc. When you remopve the cams, the exhuast shims and buckets can fall out. It helps to have three hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I use the gray sealant, it's worked the best for me. A good thing about having the engine out and on a stand is that you can tip it so the head is up, then when you take the cams out the buckets and shims don't all fall out at once. It's only like 10 more nuts and bolts to get the engine out. Subaru's are the easiest engines out there to pull out and get back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 i agree with the above post, i have an engine lift and air tools and removing and reinstalling an engine can take a significant amount of time. now, if you're pulling an engine from a parts car - that can be much quicker...cut and yank. but still, aligning stuff can be annoying. air tools are nice either way that's for sure. no matter the time it takes to pull an engine, much of that work needs to be done to pull the headgaskets anyway - intake, lots of hoses, clamps, etc, and exhaust. so there's not a ton left to yank the lump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansheercr Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 I'm going to put the shims back in just the way they came out.Do I need the valve depressor to put the buckets and shims back in or can I do it with pliers and fingers? I plan on keeping the car maybe 2 or 3 years if I can.Within the past year including this job I had the starter,alternator rebuilt,water pump,2 sets of cam/ crank seals,1 used front crank pulley because the original came loose and sheared the key way,valve cover gaskets,and the fuel filler neck.With that amount of money I'd like to get some miles before we go and get a fresh car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomson1355 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Check the clearances before you loosen any cam cap bolts just to make sure there aren't any that are too tight. I've yet to find any too tight. Also, it's not hard to make sure the shims and buckets don't fall out. It's just something to be aware of. And, no, you don't need a valve depressor. The shims and buckets just slid inot place and are kept there by the cam lobes. Assembly lube will hold them until you put the cams on. If you don't have to take these cars to a dealer for repairs like this one, they are incredibly cheap to own. And they feel solid going down the road. Do the necessary repairs and you can drive them til they rust from under you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansheercr Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 We as well enjoy the car. It's very versatile for a family of 4.I enjoy the personal satisfaction of completing the job without going to the dealer.I was worried about the bucket/shims, but with your last post I feel I can do it.I was told I will need to jack the motor up by the oil pan and move it to the side.Removing the dog bone under the air box will further the movement.Is it true I will need to have the #1 cylinder at TDC before I start uninstalling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomson1355 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 You may want to jack the engine up but you don't have to. Yes, it's tight if you don't, but perfectly doable. I like having the engine securely anchored when torqueing and detorqueing head bolts and cam pulley bolts, but lifting it a bit would make it easier to get at valve cover bolts and those long head bolts. You can play it by ear and jack it or pull it if you need to. Forget TDC. Line up the timing marks on the belt and take it off. The pistons are all mid-travel, the RH valves are closed, and there is a valve open on each LH cam. The open LH valves may snap shut when you take the belt off, but there is no possibility of damage if the timing marks were lined up. To reinstall, you just rotate them back into postition. It's explained in detail in the shop manual, if it isn't in Haynes. I think I have the file still, and I'm sure I have a hard copy if you'd like it. PM me, if you do. I hear ya on the personal satisfaction thing. I can't put my finger on exactly why it's so rewarding, but it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansheercr Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 You may want to jack the engine up but you don't have to. Yes, it's tight if you don't, but perfectly doable. I like having the engine securely anchored when torqueing and detorqueing head bolts and cam pulley bolts, but lifting it a bit would make it easier to get at valve cover bolts and those long head bolts. You can play it by ear and jack it or pull it if you need to. Forget TDC. Line up the timing marks on the belt and take it off. The pistons are all mid-travel, the RH valves are closed, and there is a valve open on each LH cam. The open LH valves may snap shut when you take the belt off, but there is no possibility of damage if the timing marks were lined up. To reinstall, you just rotate them back into postition. It's explained in detail in the shop manual, if it isn't in Haynes. I think I have the file still, and I'm sure I have a hard copy if you'd like it. PM me, if you do. I hear ya on the personal satisfaction thing. I can't put my finger on exactly why it's so rewarding, but it is. Thanks for the offer .I'm working out of the Haynes manual which did explain it well enough.Very helpful post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddevil Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Personally I always (except for the very first time I did one head) pull the motor. That way EVERYTHING is kosher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansheercr Posted November 18, 2007 Author Share Posted November 18, 2007 Got the head gaskets done yesterday.It went pretty smooth.We had to jack the left side of the motor about 2 inches in order to pull the head bolt out far enough to get the head off.The 1-3 head gasket failed down by the exhaust valves.2-4 head had no signs.We unbolted the intake and then just lifted enough to get the head off.The 3M yellow bristle discs on a die grinder make quick and effective work for gasket removal.The only problem I had was putting the timing belt back on with the marks on the sprockets. Napa after market belts don't have any timing marks on them.I counted teeth and when I ended on the last pulley it didn't come out right.I assembled it with double marks together and the crank pulley where it should be but I feel as though in the end 1 sprocket is a tooth off. Would 1 tooth make a small consistent puff at idle or would the computer copensate for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 1 tooth off is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansheercr Posted November 22, 2007 Author Share Posted November 22, 2007 Well I bit the bullet and bought a Subaru belt that had the lines printed on it,installed it and it runs smooth now.I'm glad that job is complete.Thanks to all for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 sounds good. you could duplicate the marks on your other belt for future use. glad it's up and running, good job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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