bk2valve Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I have an '88 DL wagon and have a 'no spark' situation. It was running well and I changed the plugs, wires, rotor and cap, and all of a sudden with no other indication, I went to start it up and no spark from the coil. The coil checks out fine. I searched and found a diode test to perform on the unit that is on the coil mounting bracket. Performing that test, it showed no conductivity either way on the two spade connectors on the unit. I also found that it was called several things on this board, none of which has helped in searching out a new part. It was called an "igniter", an "ignition control module", a "diode" and a "condenser". Does anyone know the correct nomenclature? Thanks for any help you can offer....I am not really sure this is the problem but think it may be....when I put a test light from the negative terminal of the coil to ground, it glowed steady while engine was cranked...shouldn't it flash if all was well? I do not know how to run tests on the distributor... Thanks in advance, Brian in NM:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94Loyale Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Well, an 88 should have a CPS style distributor I believe, so there is no points or anything you could have messed with. There should be a 4 wire connector on the wire that comes off the distributor, check to make sure you didn't knock it loose or anything. Also check all your fusible links to make sure that they are in good condition. Another thing that will cause a no spark on the coil is the coil bracket itself not being grounded correctly. If it is rusty, then it will not spark. To check whether you are getting spark pulse from the igniter, use a test light and put it on the negative side of the coil. While cranking the motor, you should see the light turn on and off. If there is no light at all, check the horn fuse. I ran into a similar problem on my Loyale too. If your car has the CPS (Crankshaft Position Sensor) Distributor, then your in the same boat I was. Check out the thread from my problem, if you don't find your answer in there, then you really have a problem http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=82508 Someone should confirm the distributor for me though, I'm not positive on an '88. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94Loyale Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 BTW, if it ends up being an igniter, or you want to try one and don't have a junkyard nearby. I have a good one I can send you, no charge. Here is another thing to check, when you turn the key to the run position, make sure your check engine light is on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk2valve Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Thanks very much for your response....I do have a good ground...all fusible liks are good and my best guess is that it is the ignition amplifier. I will get after it tomorrow....follow the link you gave me more thoroughly and then if I can't get it from there I will ask for one of your amplifiers....Maybe you would test a good amplifier for me and using a VOM on the Ohm scale, see what you get between the two spade connectors...I was told that it should have little resistance one way and complete resistance the other...mine shows total resistance or an open circuit both ways,,,,thanks again for your help, Until tomorrow, Brian in NM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94Loyale Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 No problem buddy, I'll grab my voltmeter from work tomorrow. I'll test one of them and see what I get on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill90Loyale Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Meanwhile, double-check your rotor installation on the distributor. If your rotor was secured with a little screw, that screw can back off, leaving you with a no-spark condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk2valve Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Bill90Loyale, OK I will check that rotor screw out tomorrow. I think it is fine but since I used a new and different screw it may be hanging up on the plastic of the rotor...could be...I'll check... Thanks, Brian in NM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94Loyale Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 This is true, but you said you have no spark from the coil. The cap and rotor come after the coil. If you were getting spark from the coil, but none to the plugs, then Bill is definately right, I would check that also. But if you checked for juice off the main coil wire and had nothing, then you need to look before the coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk2valve Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 This is true, but you said you have no spark from the coil. The cap and rotor come after the coil. If you were getting spark from the coil, but none to the plugs, then Bill is definately right, I would check that also. But if you checked for juice off the main coil wire and had nothing, then you need to look before the coil. 94Loyale...You know, after following the thread for your old problem...I am still thinking it is the ignition amplifier. I would like to offer to buy one of yours (the closest yard with any possibilities is 280 miles round trip and they want me to bring my old one by so they know what I am talking about) and pay for shipping as well. If that is cool with you, and you have a Paypal address I can forward you the $ as soon as I know. Thanks, Brian in NM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Just a real dumb question, I am sorry to have to ask it. I have seen no where, where you made sure the rotor in the dist was turning when cranking. If the driverside timing belt breaks the rotor will not turn thus the CAS (Crank Angle Sensor) in th dist will not rotate thus the ECU will not send a spark signal to the amplifier for amplification. Sorry for the ??? I have been known to bark up many wrong bark covered objects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk2valve Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Skip....in my little world the only dumb question is the one unasked...you would not believe the simple, overlooked things that have put me up against the wall. However, the rotor does spin and I just double-checked to make sure. I have pretty much gone over everything I can find a lead for and other than not really knowing a good test for the ignition amplifier, I think it is that item. Somewhere I did read of a test for it and while they called it something else...that is what I think they were referring to....and I did the test ( a diode test) on the two spade connectors and they tested infinity resistance both ways and according to the info, they should have tested very little resistance one way. Here's hoping...thanks for the ideas, Brian in NM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94Loyale Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Brian, just shoot me a PM with the address you want it sent to I don't need any money for it. My payment is seeing another old subaru on the road You will see a reddish substance on the bracket though, its called rust,lol. You guys don't have much of that in NM do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Since the horn is also tied to fuse #5 which is critical for the ignition to work make sure the horn works as a test for power. Another thing to check is power to the ECU on pins 29, 41, and 49. There may be a problem with the ignition relay causing this trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk2valve Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Brian, just shoot me a PM with the address you want it sent to I don't need any money for it. My payment is seeing another old subaru on the road You will see a reddish substance on the bracket though, its called rust,lol. You guys don't have much of that in NM do you? That is just excellent 94 Loyale...thank you! No rust here but I have lived where it just ate away you car from under you (Haines, Skagway and Kodiak Island, Alaska) ..ooofff, I ran series Land Rovers then and Phospho (rust stabilizer) was my best friend! Brian in NM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk2valve Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Since the horn is also tied to fuse #5 which is critical for the ignition to work make sure the horn works as a test for power. Another thing to check is power to the ECU on pins 29, 41, and 49. There may be a problem with the ignition relay causing this trouble. Cougar....will do horn check this AM.....This may have an obvious answer but I don't see any numbers on my ECU so do I just count to find the pin numbers and if so which side is up? Thanks, Brian in NM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I think the pin numbers are on the connectors to the ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk2valve Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 I think the pin numbers are on the connectors to the ECU. I did not see any but will look again...Do you know how far I can tear into my distributor before I screw it up? I would like to take out the two screws holding the little black box unit in and look under it to clean or what ever....would also like to take out the screw in the very center out so I can lift out the disc with holes in it...maybe I can clean underneath and see if I can restore it to use...if not it is a trip up to Albuquerque for a used distributor I am afraid. Brian in NM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Before you get into the disty I would make sure that voltage is getting to those points I mentioned. You may save yourself a lot of extra work. This problem may just be a faulty ignition relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk2valve Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Before you get into the disty I would make sure that voltage is getting to those points I mentioned. You may save yourself a lot of extra work. This problem may just be a faulty ignition relay. Cougar...I have a horn...and my ecu has no pin numbers at all.....very frustrating...but I did find that there was power at all but one contacts on the ignition relay....I also found the connectors for drawing codes out of the ecu and they are codes 11 and 13....looks like crank angle sensor, no? Meaning my disty is pooped out? OOOOOPs....never mind...I did a vigorous cleaning of the inside of my disty with electrical solvent and my disty connector as well, tried it again and it fired right up.....thank you everyone.....you all are the best and I will make a contribution to the group.....I will stick around as well to help if I can..... 94Loyale....I won't be needing the ignition amplifier either it seems...thank you for that offer.... Brian in NM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk2valve Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Cougar...I have a horn...and my ecu has no pin numbers at all.....very frustrating...but I did find that there was power at all but one contacts on the ignition relay....I also found the connectors for drawing codes out of the ecu and they are codes 11 and 13....looks like crank angle sensor, no? Meaning my disty is pooped out? OOOOOPs....never mind...I did a vigorous cleaning of the inside of my disty with electrical solvent and my disty connector as well, tried it again and it fired right up.....thank you everyone.....you all are the best and I will make a contribution to the group.....I will stick around as well to help if I can..... 94Loyale....I won't be needing the ignition amplifier either it seems...thank you for that offer.... Brian in NM Dang....It started a couple of times, started stumbling and quit each time....clapped my hands too soon....It still shows the crank angle sensor fault so I guess the cleaning did not help that much. Does anyone know of a diagram of the ECU so I can get a handle on pin numbers? Brian in NM (still puzzled) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Brian, when my Ig Amp went it did the same thing. I did not check for codes - sorry this was almost 10 years ago. Had the Subaru dealer stumped, they were going to throw an ECU at it. I did change the dist - same thing -sometimes start sometimes no start sometimes start stumble die. I'll see if I can find the pin out and connector diagram if Cougar doesn't beat me to it. I was under the assumption that the coil will show battery voltage on one side if the ig relay is functioning. I could be all wet here - Cougar will set me straight. Off to do some looking. Edit for one more thing When my Ig Amp was bad. If I held the coil output wire real close to a ground and it was semi dark out. I could see a very small spark when it was cranked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk2valve Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Brian, when my Ig Amp went it did the same thing. I did not check for codes - sorry this was almost 10 years ago. Had the Subaru dealer stumped, they were going to throw an ECU at it. I did change the dist - same thing -sometimes start sometimes no start sometimes start stumble die. I'll see if I can find the pin out and connector diagram if Cougar doesn't beat me to it. I was under the assumption that the coil will show battery voltage on one side if the ig relay is functioning. I could be all wet here - Cougar will set me straight. Off to do some looking. OK Skip...thanks...If I just knew the way the pins are numbered...that is what side is top and are they numbered from the left to right, or up-down, up- down....you know what I mean....I don't mind counting them off. I just need to know where to start. Maybe I should still get the ig amp from 94Loyale....do you copy, 94Loyale????? My coil shows 12v to pos and 12v to neg, the signal at negative terminal is steady, even when cranking and I think it is supposed to blink. Arghh...Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Brian try this http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5245&d=1189880902 Scroll down for the SPFI sections It will give you wire colors which connector and numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio_file Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I have an '88 DL wagon and have a 'no spark' situation. It was running well and I changed the plugs, wires, rotor and cap, and all of a sudden with no other indication, I went to start it up and no spark from the coil. The coil checks out fine. I searched and found a diode test to perform on the unit that is on the coil mounting bracket. Performing that test, it showed no conductivity either way on the two spade connectors on the unit. I also found that it was called several things on this board, none of which has helped in searching out a new part. It was called an "igniter", an "ignition control module", a "diode" and a "condenser". Does anyone know the correct nomenclature?Thanks for any help you can offer....I am not really sure this is the problem but think it may be....when I put a test light from the negative terminal of the coil to ground, it glowed steady while engine was cranked...shouldn't it flash if all was well? I do not know how to run tests on the distributor... Thanks in advance, Brian in NM:confused: Hi Brian When i got my 87 wagon I replaced plugs, wires, but not the disty cap/rotor because they looked new enough. Big mistake, I then had the same exact issue you are describing. As it turned out, the moron who worked on the car before I purchased it put the wrong disty cap/rotor on the car, he put on the non denso stuff, and my car has the denso disty. It functioned correctly in spite of that, until I wiggled the disty cap around while replacing the spark wires. Then, like you, no go. Moral of the story, make sure the cap is the correct one, the best way I know to tell is to look at the bottom edge of the cap. On my car the cap needs to have 2 small tabs that stick out from the caps base (at the 12 and 6 o'clock position if you will) and fit into corresponding slots in the disty. The cap the previous owner put on my car only had one tab, which allowed the cap to move/rotate ever so slightly, causing the rotor to not line up correctly with the metal points inside the cap- make sense? Just my .02 seeing as I've experienced something eerily similar :-\ chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk2valve Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Briantry this http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5245&d=1189880902 Scroll down for the SPFI sections It will give you wire colors which connector and numbers OK Skip....I bookmarked it....cool, I should be able to print it out and be able to match up colors to figure out pin numbers! Thanks, my friend...You guys are great here....what a site!!!!! Brian in NM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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