akloyale Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 My 90 loyale has slowly developed a starting problem; It would click, but start. after a week it would only start when hit with a hammer. Now only makes a repeated clicking when key is turned. I replaced the started and them read all the posts here about starters, relays, push buttons, bad connections etc. I installed new battery cables and cleaned all terminals and grounds, then put in a relay. still just a click. Unplugged the ignition switch wires (I think thats the name) under the steering column no burning or browning. However, after plugging it back in I tried to start it and something in the starter just spins. really high rpm/whining noise like a jet engine. spins continuously until power wire in relay is removed. I'm thinkin that means the ign switch is sending continuous signal even when key is off (bad switch). but shouldn't the starter engage??? I am total stumped and don't know what to do. why just the whining noise and no starting?? and why does it continue to spin after the ign is turned off. Also starter doesn't start when I bridge the gap from the positive battery cable to the selonoid cable, just the same spinning noise and lots of sparks. thanks for all the help so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill90Loyale Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Have you eliminated the bad battery theory? If you haven't, try jumping it with a known good battery and see if that solves the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I can't say anything about the wiring issue you have, but the starter itself is dying. The whine you hear is the starter motor free-spinning at high RPMs because the solenoid isn't pulling the drive gear out to mesh with the flywheel. I've had a few starters of various makes do that and found it's usually caused by wear of the pivot point of the lever that moves the drive gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I replaced the started and them read all the posts here about starters, relays, push buttons, bad connections etc do you mean starter? you replaced it already? with a used one or a new? This is the first thing I want to know. Likely you're starter wasn't bad. You may need to get it back and reinstall it to track this down, since the replacement has seemingly caused more issues than it's solved. ...............................................spins continuously until power wire in relay is removed. ........................................... What relay??? The wire to the starter solenoid? Or the connection for the ignition switch? seems like maybe you plugged in the connector backwards. Also starter doesn't start when I bridge the gap from the positive battery cable to the selonoid cable, just the same spinning noise and lots of sparks. thanks for all the help so far. If you replaced the starter, is it possible you did not get it bolted in completely? If it is not seated, it will not engage the flyweheel and will just freespin. Also, are you positive you have the correct starter? If you have the wrong one it also may not engage and will freespin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akloyale Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 the starter is a brand new one. I am sure it is put in all the way and the parts store was sure it is the right one I made him check twice. when it starts spinning I have to remove the direct power for the relay (either from battery or to starter). I really don't think it is the battery because it has lots of power usually, but I am gonna check when I can (no other car or battery to use).. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 the starter is a brand new one. I am sure it is put in all the way and the parts store was sure it is the right one I made him check twice. when it starts spinning I have to remove the direct power for the relay(either from battery or to starter). I really don't think it is the battery because it has lots of power usually, but I am gonna check when I can (no other car or battery to use).. What relay???? are you talking about the solenoid on the starter? Loyales do not use a relay for starting. I'd love to help, but this i confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 If it's spinning, it's getting power. So if it's the correct starter, and installed right, they gave you a bad one. Which I doubt. Double check the application and installation. Then, disconnect the solenoid wire to the starter. Then test that wire for 12v. If there is power there other than when you hit *start* with the key, you have a problem. Go back to the connector you unplugged and figure out why it's sending power through. Once you've solved that, you can get back to testing the starter. Too bad you probably just have poor contact in your ignition switch and only needed a pushbutton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akloyale Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 I put in a relay to for the starter because it was suggested on some other threads that the clicking was from a lack of power coming through the selonoid wire. The relay uses the original selonoid power wire as the switch and is then wired from the battery to the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I put in a relay to for the starter because it was suggested on some other threads that the clicking was from a lack of power coming through the selonoid wire. The relay uses the original selonoid power wire as the switch and is then wired from the battery to the starter. Sorry, missed that in the first post. Well, it could be that you're relay is sticking that is causing the constant spinning. You could test its operation with a Multimeter. Look for continuity across the contacts even when not energized. Although the spinning itself is troubling. The gear is either not kicking out to engage,(bad starter, unlikely) or,...it is not the right starter or is not installed right. Sorry to keep saying that, but if it's brand new, spinning, but not engageing, something is wrong there. The drive gear is not hitting the flywheel, there must be a reason why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akloyale Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 I am going to check installation and try the original starter to see if it is the wrong starter. I checked the voltage in the selonoid wire when ign is on and it only has .024V. I am not savy to car electrical but I would imagine this nowhere near the amount of voltage needed to start a selonoid (possibly not even enough to power the relay every time?). I am going to install push button for now and will report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I am going to check installation and try the original starter to see if it is the wrong starter. I checked the voltage in the solenoid wire when ign is on and it only has .024V. You should not have any voltage to the solenoid wire in the *on* position. It is the *start* position where that wire should get power, 12v, and only then. If you meant *start*, and you only have .024v, then that is not enough. Although, that doesn't explain why the starter is spinning all the time. Hmm.. Interested to see what you find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 the starter is a brand new one. I had a bad one out of the box last year - had me scratching my noggin' for a LONG time. Replaced battery before I finally figured out it was a bad starter. It's freaky, but it happens. It's lucky it takes like 45 seconds to switch-out. (assuming you leave the spare off ...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akloyale Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 well turns out it was two things wrong. I didn't have the selonoid wire connected to the correct tab:banghead:. and the relay was bad, it always gave continuous power through it regardless of the voltage coming in the switch wire. I ended up using the original starter and putting in a push button. thanks for all the help guys I feel like an idiot but that is how I learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Glad it worked out for you. Did you ever determine why the new starter was just spinning? Was it the wrong one? or just a bad one? Also, where did you pull the 12v for the puhbutton from? If you wired straight from the battery, make sure to put a fuse or fusible link in as near to the battery connection as you can. Or you may end up with a fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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