Swapping Subarus... advice?

[binary visions]

So, I've received an offer to basically be given a 2002 Subaru Outback wagon with 125,000 miles on it. This would replace a 1998 Subaru Forester with 155k.

 

The Outback has had quite a few niggling seal problems. Estimated about $1100 in oil seals here and there, oil pan, valve gasket cover, etc. Also, for some reason, oxygen sensors keep going - been through 4 in the last 4-5 years. It's also - ugh - an automatic. Those are my concerns. On the plus side, it's been fanatically maintained, is spotless and mechanically excellent. It is possible that the catalytic converter will need to be replaced soon, which will not be cheap.

 

The Forester has been fairly mechnically sound. Wear items here and there have gone, plus a couple sensors. It needs a timing belt in the next 5000 miles, the clutch is on its way out, and it uses a lot of oil and refrigerant, so I figure the clutch/timing belt will offset the potential catalytic converter replacement on the Outback.

 

My question to the experienced Subaru heads is, am I stupid to not take the Outback? If I take it, I drive it - it's not an option to sell it. I'm just trying to get a handle on if I can expect continuous seal problems, and if the oxygen sensors will just have to be replaced yearly. Is the older Forester with more miles a more reliable bet? Are the oxygen sensors easily replaceable at home? What's a catalytic converter replacement going to run me?

 

Thanks for any insight you can provide. I hate the idea of going back to an automatic but feel that this may be a time to swallow my ideals and save myself some money for a couple more years before buying something newer.

[nipper]

For free take.

 

The O2 sensors, have they even been OE sensors? i bet thats the problem. i doubt the outback needs a cat. ALso its possible something is poisining the o2 sensors.

 

Oil seals you can do on your own, along with the water pump.

 

Autos are great :-p

[screwbaru2]

I'd scoop it up. Do as much work yourself as you can. O2 sensors are not hard especially if your doing em once a year:lol: ! There are tricks on this site that people say they do to get around O2 / cat issues. I don't know personally. Yet. I'm with ya on the auto but I'm driving one now and ya get used to it. Am looking forward to driving my 5spd again. Check the overflow tank for bubbles after a long drive on the highway with hills if possible. Watch the temp gauge if it looks like its getting hot pull over and check the overflow if you see bubbles HG's add $1500 to what you have already.

[idosubaru]

hands down i'd take the newer 2002 in just about every respect from cosmetics, maintenance, miles, updates, better engine....there's hardly any advantages to the 98 forester in my opinion.

 

i'm not understanding how this is a question!

[binary visions]

The O2 sensors, have they even been OE sensors? i bet thats the problem. i doubt the outback needs a cat. ALso its possible something is poisining the o2 sensors.

They've been OEM sensors from the dealership. They've basically been replacing them for free because they've been failing so frequently. Nobody can pinpoint the problem.

 

Catalytic converter has been coming up on the check engine light, which is why I'm assuming it needs one.

 

Check the overflow tank for bubbles after a long drive on the highway with hills if possible.

I thought the 2002 Outbacks were not prone to this issue?

 

i'm not understanding how this is a question!

Perhaps it shouldn't be :-p. I guess I'm mostly concerned that this car has seemed to require more minor (non-wear) maintenance than the Forester.

 

Thanks for the help so far... Anyone have any other issues I should be keeping an eye out for on the 2002 Outback wagons?

[nipper]

If the engine is running too rich, or if it is burning oil, it may be fouling o2 sensors. It may have a vacume leak someplace, or an exhaust leak no one can find.

 

I still think its a no brainer

 

Has it been passing emission tests?

 

nipper

[aircraft engineer]

the only way to kill a cat is to run it very rich for an extended period of time (or run leaded fuel and poison it.) The ceramic will overload from the extra fuel and literally burn up (gets VERY hot)

[nipper]

Not that a dealer would ever do this, but are you sure they were OE sensors?

 

nipper

[screwbaru2]

gbrand wrote this might be something to think about.

 

I dont know about this O2 sensor, but most seem to have the same thread-the same as the larger spark plugs used on many cars. I found out the hard way when the O2 sensor on my Nissan truck left half it's threads in the manifold, and I was able to use my spark plug thread chaser to clean/retap the hole. The point is, if that is the case for yours, a Spark plug non-fouler, available in the "Help" section of any autoparts store would do what you are looking for.

 

Now, as far if it produces the desired result regarding getting rid of the code, I am not sure if that is going to help or not. If the sensor is defective it may need to be replaced-some sub's are under recall, let us know how you make out.

[idosubaru]

 

 

I thought the 2002 Outbacks were not prone to this issue?

the 2002's still have head gasket issues, but you won't see it as bubbles in the tank (or it's very, very unlikely). they are different since the engine was changed in 99/00 (depending on model), to the Phase II EJ25. these have an external head gasket leak, come with an extended 100,000 mile warranty by Subaru (only certain ones are covered) and Subaru puts in their special additive with every coolant change to mitigate this as well.

 

the Phase II head gasket issues are much nicer than the earlier models. no worries about getting stranded or whatever. the earlier EJ25's can essentially be un-drivable at any given time, they can overheat instantly and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

the phase II's, like this 2002 will only seap externally. as long as you don't let it run low on coolant it won't even overheat, just keep adding coolant and you can actually drive them for a very long time like that.

[binary visions]

Has it been passing emission tests?

Yep.

 

the only way to kill a cat is to run it very rich for an extended period of time (or run leaded fuel and poison it.)

The cat in my Forester just died and had to be replaced last year. Is there something I can do to help prolong its life on the Outback?

 

Not that a dealer would ever do this, but are you sure they were OE sensors?

Well, frankly, no - in that, I've not actually seen one in my hands to confirm. But it's a very reputable dealer, so as best I can tell it's very likely to be an OE sensor.

 

Thanks for the info about the head gaskets, Gary.