camroc14 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 K, here's the situation. I'm pickin up an 86 GL hatchback and i'm getting a rebuilt engine for it. I'm spending around or under a thousand bucks for the car because its in good shape but has 200K on it. Anyway, my dilema is that I really want it to have some GETUP without spending several thousand dollars on a WRX block or somethin. So after talking with a CCRengines guy(who rebuilds all size Subaru engines) He gave me a number of options for power plants i could put in there. Obviously the cheapest option would be to put another 1.8 EA8 engine in it. And i know of people who have converted this block into a turbo charged one. Does anyone know how>? honestly I'm pretty engine savy, but I haven't gotten into anything this large before and i'd really appreciate some insight from the guru's out there. Gimmie any advice you want. How to do it. What it'll cost. CHOSE ANOTHER BLOCK. what THAT will cost. Just gimmie some insight. in the next couple weeks i'm going to buy a cheap subaru in decent shape with a high milage engine, so i can finally start building my car. BANG FOR THE BUCK.... gimmie some advice guys. thanks a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joostvdw Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Simple: EA81T are "rare" and not that powerfull EA82T are not rare but are also not that powerfull and are very problem prone Either one is not really worth the effort or the trouble, with slightly more work you could have an EJ22 or EJ25 (the 2.5 has a little bit more power but more wiring to do) Search the forums, there is tons of information about an EJ22 swap, there is even a .pdf file with almost all the stuff you need to know. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveeen Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I really want it to have some GETUP without spending several thousand dollars Buy something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry DeMoss Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I really want it to have some GETUP without spending several thousand dollars Buy something else. I don't agree at all. There are several things that should get done while you are getting your engine rebuilt if you plan on getting a few extra ponies out of the ea81's. First thing is try and find some pistons from a ea71 or ea82 spfi block that are in good shape and that will bump your compression a bit from that alone. Also send your cam to deltacam to get it reground to the type of style driving you are intending the car for that will be a good help. Also get your heads decked down .020" when rebuilding the motor also and those three things as a whole will help the engine out quite a bit. Then from there you should put a weber on there and you should be set for some fun! Gotta love the pushrod motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveeen Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I don't agree at all. Well, ok................. Here we are claiming to be paying about $1000 for a 22 year old car that isn't "beat to pieces", we don't know what is in there for a transmission, but I would lean towards an auto if it isn't beat to pieces. We all know what an auto transmission in an old Subaru is good for? In the next breath we are speaking rebuilt engine, specifically CCR, or a quick $1295 for a "stocker", no mods. As you say:First thing is try and find some pistons from a ea71 or ea82 spfi block that are in good shape and that will bump your compression a bit from that alone. Also send your cam to deltacam to get it reground to the type of style driving you are intending the car for that will be a good help. Also get your heads decked down .020" when rebuilding the motor. Another grand? So, here we stand at the threshold of $3500, are we not at "several thousand", without tires, brakes, steering (it is 22 years old), not to mention a possible transmission? (I'm currently looking at a '97 Imprezza for $700 to upgrade my fleet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Yep - waste of time and money. Buy a legacy. I got one that needed a water pump for $750 last summer from a middle aged lady - only 135k on it. The deals are out there every week. $1000 for an EA82 that's anything short of an RX or touring wagon or other rare animal is silly. I would much rather pay $1000 for a very nice EA81 hatch or Brat. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroc14 Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 good advice... sorry i made the situation so vague. i understand there's definitely a number of ways you could take "some get up" and "several thousand dollars". Here's there deal. i don't need 300+ HP or anything, i guess i'm just tryin to find something that will still get good gas millage, *1.8 or 2.2 L probably. yet will have a little more get up than say... my brother's 93 legacy wagon. i want something that will pack a little punch if i actually want it to. I'm probably willing to spend 3 or 4K on the car and engine PRIOR to modding it. I don't really want to go back through the engine and start replacing block components if i don't have to. with that said, what would you guys recommend for me to invest in *as far as powerplants go. Lets say i get a rebuilt engine for 2 or 3 k Can anyone give me a ballpark estimate for how much it would cost to install a turbo into lets say a fuel injected 2.2 that didn't have one already. is finding a used turbo kit even a good idea? Or am i stuck shoveling our another 2 or 3 thousand dollars if i want one? I'm not worried about labor. And i'm looking into parts costs... but does anyone know of any good places to look for parts for a job like that. I'm guessing there's sites out there people have found where you can get good set ups for jobs like this... wow. i know there's a lot of questions in this. you may not be able to answer all of them. *or have any desire to for that matter. But address whatever you'd like. I appreciate all the insight i can get. Even if you think i'm going in the complete wrong direction of how to go about rebuilding a subaru. go ahead let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveeen Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 i don't need 300+ HP or anything, i guess i'm just tryin to find something that will still get good gas millage, *1.8 or 2.2 L probably. yet will have a little more get up than say... my brother's 93 legacy wagon. i want something that will pack a little punch if i actually want it to. This simply is not going to happen. You do not talk power, turbo chargers, and gas mileage. I get 8MPG when I drive like an "idiot" (my gallons are 1/5 bigger than yours), and sure, I can lean it out a bit, but gasoline @ $1.36/liter is still cheaper than pistons/valves. Mileage is ok when driven "normally", but how much fun is that? A turbo charged engine is "purpose built", which usually includes (but is not limited to) special bottom end bearings, low compression pistons, different cam shaft(s), oil cooler, increased oil capacity. Putting a turbo on a "normal" engine requires you limit the boost to around 5-6psi, I'm not going to say "hardly worth the bother", but I will imply it. Save your cash, keep your eyes peeled, "the deal" comes to those who wait, I paid $425 for my turbo Legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 sorry i made the situation so vague. i understand there's definitely a number of ways you could take "some get up" and "several thousand dollars". Here's there deal. i don't need 300+ HP or anything, i guess i'm just tryin to find something that will still get good gas millage, *1.8 or 2.2 L probably. Not with a turbo you won't. Turbo's run rich - it's the nature of forced induction and neccesary to prevent detonation and severe engine damage. Expect no more than 25 MPG with a very small turbo and driving it like a very old, mostly blind man. 20 MPG is much more realistic for a turbo of 1.8 or 2.2 size. yet will have a little more get up than say... my brother's 93 legacy wagon. i want something that will pack a little punch if i actually want it to. Surely you jest right? That 93 legacy has 130 HP. A 2.2 turbo would put out 160 stock. Modded they can easily push 200 or lots more if you are willing to do the work. But installing one (after you search one down - they are rare) would be a lot of work, and even at stock HP you'll demolish the EA transmission. There's few EA turbo's that would outrun a well-maintained bone-stock 93 legacy with a manual trans. Trust me. It can be done of course. Here's the formual: Performance, Cost, Reliability. Pick two - the other one goes out the window. I'm probably willing to spend 3 or 4K on the car and engine PRIOR to modding it. You're drunk, or stupid, or both. That's just plain dumb. You can get an Impreza for that. I don't really want to go back through the engine and start replacing block components if i don't have to. Ah - then you want an EJ, not an EA - see above comment. with that said, what would you guys recommend for me to invest in *as far as powerplants go. EJ22/EJ22T. By far the best engine subaru has made to date. Get the body to go alone with it as they are superior as well. Lets say i get a rebuilt engine for 2 or 3 k Gulp! Ok - lets say. Can anyone give me a ballpark estimate for how much it would cost to install a turbo into lets say a fuel injected 2.2 that didn't have one already. That depends - would you like it to last more than 10,000 miles or just make it down the street? $500 would probably buy enough parts to make it run. It wouldn't be safe, nor would it last long enough to get to 7 Eleven. is finding a used turbo kit even a good idea? Or am i stuck shoveling our another 2 or 3 thousand dollars if i want one? I'm not worried about labor. And i'm looking into parts costs... but does anyone know of any good places to look for parts for a job like that. I'm guessing there's sites out there people have found where you can get good set ups for jobs like this... Not really. You are asking for something that is not made. There is no "turbo kit". You buy a turbo CAR, or a non-turbo car. To convert between the two is a huge pain in the rump roast. Even the engine cross-member is different to allow for the major changes in exhaust routing. What you are talking about would require parts from at least 3 or 4 different cars, and you would want at least one entire donor car - such as a wrecked or otherwise wasted 91-94 turbo legacy. Then you would need a bunch of parts from an 87 to 90 EA82 turbo car to get the mechanicals to fit, and then you would have to create your own wiring harness. If you go with a non-turbo EJ22 and try to add a turbo to it - that's even more work. wow. i know there's a lot of questions in this. you may not be able to answer all of them. *or have any desire to for that matter. But address whatever you'd like. I appreciate all the insight i can get. Even if you think i'm going in the complete wrong direction of how to go about rebuilding a subaru. go ahead let me know. Completely the wrong direction with the wrong car. You want an Impreza. Pick up a 93 or 94 Imp wagon with the 1.8 and drop in a WRX front clip. That's the price range you are looking at, it's worth doing, and it will be fun, fast, and handle like a go-cart. An EA82 will be slow, unreliable, messy to modify, and even if you get those worked out it's going to handle like a bowl of oatmeal, it's got no suspension or brake options without dumping in even more cash, and what do you have then? A WRX without the WRX body that's worth no more than it was when you bought it. Bad investment. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroc14 Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 hahahaha.... k. I'll put the "buying a turbo kit for a rebuilt engine" on the back burner and i'll look around for an engine with one already on it. Now, with the turbo you have in your legacy. have you/or would you consider getting a larger turbo for it? is there a lot more involved in switching out a turbo... than just finding a larger one? I'm guessing there's some tuning involved. This place I'm lookin to buy the rebuild from, they have rebuilt turbo charged engines of all sizes. Is there anything iffy about getting something like that? How much do you think would be involved in installing a turbo charged block into a car that originally held that same size engine... just not the turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Now, with the turbo you have in your legacy. have you/or would you consider getting a larger turbo for it? is there a lot more involved in switching out a turbo... than just finding a larger one? I'm guessing there's some tuning involved. Sure - but running ANYTHING beyond stock components requires a ton of work before you can do it reliably. Expect to spend $2000 to $3000 at a minimum to add proper guages, controllers, added cooling, ect before you can increase even a few HP over stock. Anything less is asking for major engine damage. Just a single injector that's not performing correctly or a glitch in one sensor can cause massive engine failure when you begin increaseing boost, or even increaseing the CFM at stock boost levels (larger turbo's). And you still don't seem to understand that the car you are working with is going to fall apart under any power levels reachable by the EJ turbo's. The EA transmission isn't going to handle it. Even the gen 1 legacy tranny can't handle it - people are always stripping gears in them just running up around 200 HP - that's only 40 HP over stock on those tranny's. Can you imagine what 200 HP will do to a tranny designed to handle 90? GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 How much do you think would be involved in installing a turbo charged block into a car that originally held that same size engine... just not the turbo. I know exactly how much is involved. I've had both vehicles (EA and EJ) torn completely apart, and I understand all their respective systems. Q: How much? A: WAY too much. There is no EA turbo that will give you what you want, so you can just forget about them entirely. That leaves only one option without stepping up to the WRX's and newer engines - the EJ22T. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbobdole Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 BAH! Sure are a bunch of negative Nancys in here. They are kinda right, but kinda silly as well. Firstly, rule out the EA82T. You don't want it. If you want power or speed, and don't care about a turbo, get an EJ22 or EJ25. Easiest way into an EJ22 is to just buy a legacy, the whole car. Here in CO you can get a running driving example with a few billion miles for about $500, and it will contain most everything you'll need for the swap. You must also remember, that the hatchback is LIGHT... Very light. You will have no issues outrunning the stock legacy with the same motor. I've also hear of people cheaply boosting the stock block to about 7 psi with good results. The other option if you want more then that power is the EJ25. They are kinda prone to HG failure, and such engines in the community are rather thrown away. Makes them cheap;) I personally have a single cam version myself, great little engine, and don't let those bullies tell you you'll be buying new heads and gaskets and just don't even go there. This engine is no where near the realm of the EA82Ts junkyness, but at the same time it is no EJ22. The EJ22 makes 130 HP stock. The EJ25 has a bit of a range from 160 to 176 depending on year. The older dual cams tended to have more issues, where as the single cams are no so bad... not that it's a big deal, slap new gaskets, have the heads machined and you're set for 100k miles or more. The other other turbo option is the EJ22T. Great engine, hard to find. Unlike GD says, you can reasonably mod this engine without buying half the country's worth in parts. No engine damage really to be feared if you don't go stupid full hog. Even then the ECU will freak out and put you back in line if you try to overboost it too much. These guys are also way off the mark on prices... like they shop at the dealer for everything. IIRC I built my '88 Rx with the SOHC 2.5 for about $1500 including the price of the car. I got the engine for $400, which I have found others in the same price range. Trans, which I highly recommend the legacy or just EJ trans in general. I paid $65 on craig's list for... expect about $75-$100 at a yard. Then there was a lot of modification done to the trans mount, custom driveshaft for $80, and I swapped my rear diff for about $30. I bought a few gauges, the cheap ones, not the GD style ones , and I actually didn't change my cooling. I'm also running "close to 200 HP" and on an impreza tranny... a 2.2 liter impreza tranny with no stripping or breaking, but then I drive it pretty sane. It is not a swap for the faint of heart, but the site has TONS of info how to do the EJ22 swap and any EJ swap is about the same. Don't let these guys scare you.. it can be done, and for not too much. Hatches are cool, not like boring legacies... I think you made a good choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroc14 Posted May 17, 2008 Author Share Posted May 17, 2008 THIS JUST IN... I bought my First Subaru Yesterday! I can't even tell you how stoked I am. It's an 85 BRAT with the 1.8 carbureted engine in it. he's rebuilt the carb, then bought an entirely new one for it. This Car has been WAY well taken care of. He's tinkered around on it for 4 years just fixing little thing left and right. I can't even tell you how stoked i am. I say the listing for it yesterday morning, say how much he was asking and drive 2 hours strait to go see it. a couple people were lookin into it. and i haven't seen a BRAT in any kind of decent condition NEAR this price. LET A LONE with the things that have been done to it. YES, it's crap brown. but i don't mind at all. YOU HAVE TO SEE what has been done to the back camper compartment. Don't question it. Just look. its' the second picture. look at it last. http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=443&sid=&tab=list/view&ad=632903 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 You are better off keeping a Brat stock. Any mods you do will likely hurt the value more than anything. They are collectors cars now, and by far the most valuable of the EA series. They aren't fast, but the EA81 is an excelent engine. Do a valve adjustment. Other than that love it for what it is - don't hack up a good Brat for some crackpot EJ swap till you have done several swaps to other, less valuable, less rare vehicles. Your swap will benefit from the knowledge you gain screwing up something cheap. Expect to do a lot of tinkering - the EA81's were meant to be worked on and they require someone to care for them. They can leak a substantial amount of oil due to the old-school cork gaskets so watch your fluid levels. The rear drums brakes must be manually adjusted every few thousand, and the valves must be adjusted every 15,000. You would be wise to do the front main seal and throw on a new oil pump first thing. The pumps get chewed up by debris on it's way to the oil filter. Looks like this one already has a Weber on it. Look things over carefully - sometimes previous owners do weird stuff. That coil looks suspect to me for one - the stock ignition modules are sensitive, and aftermarket coils are prone to killing them. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 Just noticed it's an 85. If the engine is original, then the valves are hydraulic and don't require adjustment. So disreguard my former advice. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry DeMoss Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 I like it! I think it looks like a great brumby! The weber and accel coil are good add ons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbobdole Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Sweet... Good buy! Much nicer then my brown brat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi subbie Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 lol thats cool brat. the back looks like my grandparents coutch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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