kimokalihi Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I've wanted a turbo legacy sedan for a while now and I was looking on ebay and they have EJ20 motors from Japan on there all the time for what seems to be a reasonable price. I saw one for $500. Others are $1000 with a transmission. The one I was looking at looks very clean in great shape and comes with the 5 speed tranny,ECU/Wiring Harness, Airbox, MAF Sensor, Intercooler, Piping, Fuel Pump, Driveshaft, Axles, Air Canister, Vacuum Solenoid Box, Boost Solenoid, & Differential Presure Sensor. All that for $1,157 plus shipping. Not sure how much shipping would be though because you have to email them for a quote. Is this a good deal or is it a bad idea? I'm pretty sure you have to have a right hand drive legacy for the twin turbo EJ20 engine. How hard are those to locate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 i've been wondering about these as well. how much output do they have? what year are they from? are they non-intereference? how hard are they to get parts for - sensors, timing belts, O2, cam, crank...etc....are all those the same as EJ how do they compare to the EJ22T in the early legacy's? i guess those are becoming hard to find and mostly abused/blown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimokalihi Posted July 27, 2008 Author Share Posted July 27, 2008 Those are some excellent questions, thank you. Hopefully somebody has the answers... I posted this over on legacy central or BBS, whichever you like to call it but no replies. That forum gets very little traffic unforunately. That one engine came with everything though. All the sensors, wiring harness, ecu, driveline and even the air box and MAF and the axles. Crazy good deal it seemed. 58K miles they said but who knows how accurate or truthful that is. It's so tempting to buy it though. If I could find a right hand drive car I would buy one of these engines. I believe the output for the EJ20 twin turbo is around 215HP. The DOHC 2.0 liter turbocharged 217 bhp (162 kW/220 PS) engine, which is a prized engine worldwide amongst Subaru enthusiasts, was introduced first in the Legacy and later used in the Impreza WRX when that model was introduced in 1993. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Legacy It doesn't say twin turbo though and I know there was a single turbo 2.0 engine as well so I'm not sure what the twin turbo puts out. But that's some pretty decent hp for a stock 4 cylinder. Not too bad. I probably won't be upgrading anything. I just want a stock turbo car. Nice car little snowboarding car that has some power when I want to have some fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Hey guys, some answers for ya. Power Outputs at the bottom. I know from first hand experience those numbers are about right. Second gen twin turbo (1999-2002) was the best and put out around 245hp. Most people down here buy a twin turbo and convert it to a single as the twins have crap drive-ability. Their control system is also the most complex thing known to man. If you do want to go twin - please think of your fuel bill.....The primary turbo spools as low as 2000rpm with very little load. This makes it very difficult to get a good fuel economy. The twin turbos are well known for being Subaru's most fuel hungry motors. Also bear in mind aftermarket ECU's have a hard time running the twins. Parts from any EJ20 will fit onto the twin turbos. The only difference was the drivers side head which included the oil feeds for the secondary turbo. Your most practical solution would be to get a EJ20 from a Legacy RS or a version 3/4 WRX. They have a single turbo setup and with very minor mods are capable of the same power as the twins. 2002 Twin Turbo - 191kw @6000rpm http://english.auto.vl.ru/catalog/subaru/legacy_wagon/2002_5/28484/ 1997 Twin Turbo *Limited Edition - 206kw @ 6500rpm http://english.auto.vl.ru/catalog/subaru/legacy_wagon/1997_9/28550/ Single Turbo - 205kw @6500rom http://english.auto.vl.ru/catalog/subaru/impreza_wrx/1998_9/27636/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimokalihi Posted July 28, 2008 Author Share Posted July 28, 2008 Alright so the twin turbo setup may be out of the question. A right hand drive legacy is gonna be hard to come by in the US. I guess my best bet is just to find a stock 1st gen legacy with an EJ22 engine and a 5spd. Can you bolt in the 2.0 from an RS or WRX into the first gen legacy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 define "bolt in". engine will physically bolt in - motor mounts and transmission bellhousing. the wiring and ECU won't be compatible though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Any EJ20 motor up to 1999 Will bolt straight into your car. You will need to sort out the ECU as theres a lot of differences between them. Everything bolts straight into place with no fabrication needed - the hardest part is the wiring. A single turbo engine/transmission swap from any Subaru up to 1999 is a very do-able swap. After 1999 they changed the bell-housing bolt pattern. All JDM EJ20 engines are interference and most are DOHC as far as im aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimokalihi Posted July 28, 2008 Author Share Posted July 28, 2008 Any EJ20 motor up to 1999 Will bolt straight into your car. You will need to sort out the ECU as theres a lot of differences between them. Everything bolts straight into place with no fabrication needed - the hardest part is the wiring. A single turbo engine/transmission swap from any Subaru up to 1999 is a very do-able swap. After 1999 they changed the bell-housing bolt pattern. All JDM EJ20 engines are interference and most are DOHC as far as im aware. Oh, I didn't think about that. I don't want an interference engine. I don't have the legacy yet. I'm still not sure if I want a legacy or an impreza. It's too bad I don't have one though because CCR is having a sale 10% off all their engines until the 31st which is two days away but I don't know what I'm doing yet so that sucks. That could save me $300. I have a couple legacys but they're wagons and when I got the first one the timing belt snapped the first day I drove it. If it had been an interference engine I would have been screwed. I guess I'm probably gonna go with an EJ22 turbo then. Sucks that it only puts out 163 hp though. If I could find a really cheap first gen legacy sedan 5spd with a bad turbo engine I would buy it and get a rebuilt one from CCR. They're so hard to find though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 One motor i would seriously consider a swap for would be the rare EJ20 quad cam non-turbo with variable length intake runners and coil on plug ignition. They supposedly put out 145hp in stock form and with a nice exhaust and some minor mods to the airbox you can squeeze a reliable 155hp from them. Ive driven one coupled to an automatic box and it went amazingly well.....i can only imagine the fun you'd have with a manual. They also love to rev and make usefull power to 7000rpm....and dont mind winding all the way out to 7500. If i had an early sedan this would be in my top 3 engines to swap in....number one being a EJ20T...number 2 being a EG33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi subbie Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 my pic would be an eg33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimokalihi Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 Hmmm I'm new to the EG33. Just looked it up...230hp. wow. I haven't heard of somebody putting on in a first gen legacy though. Is that common? Is it hard to do? Anything special need to be done to get it to work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimokalihi Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 Did the SVX only come with an automatic? Will the EG33 mate up with the 5spd from the first gen legacys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Did the SVX only come with an automatic? Will the EG33 mate up with the 5spd from the first gen legacys? yes, only came with automatics. that doesn't matter though they bolt right up to any early legacy manuals just fine. they are *technically* an interference motor, but they won't interfere, if that makes any sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimokalihi Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 lol I don't understand. Feel free to explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Hi, Based on what I read your best option sounds like what I'm about to do - Swap an EJ22T out of a '92 Legacy SS w/a bad AT tranny into my '90 Legacy. From everything I've read (a lot!) this is one of the easier swaps. The EJ22T is equal to, if not better than, the EJ20 in durability and since it's made for the US its wiring is very similar. I've been told there are only about 3-4 wires I'll need to run for the turbo sensors. It's also non-interference, I believe. As far as power, the stock EJ22T makes 165HP, as stated, but it's well known that these motors will make 200 easy and 300 w/the right mods and re$ources. I intend to add an intercooler and manual boost control, which should put me in the 200+HP range for less than $100. I spent about $500 on the '92 SS, which was a complete car, so I could ensure I got all the wiring/sensors/computers/etc. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimokalihi Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 I'm having a hard time finding a turbo sedan though. I have a couple legacys but don't want to put a turbo motor in either of them because one's a total piece of crap and the other one runs perfect but they're both wagons. I've found several but they're either auto or high milage or too much asking price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I've been told there are only about 3-4 wires I'll need to run for the turbo sensors. are you saying you can use the existing wiring and plug and play an EJ22T ECU with the addition of a couple wires? don't tell me it's that easy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimokalihi Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Please tell me it IS that easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 are you saying you can use the existing wiring and plug and play an EJ22T ECU with the addition of a couple wires? don't tell me it's that easy? Hopefully, Josh C./Legacy777 won't mind: "...Really all you need to do is add the wires for the pressure sensor, pressure exchange solenoid, and wastegate solenoid. Beyond that, I'd recommend keeping your existing intake manifold wiring harness as it matches the plugs behind the battery. The turbo harness will be different. The only thing you'll need to do is move the coolant temp sensor wires to the driver's side. It's not a big deal, just peal back the tape, move and re-tape....." I underlined the part that may be up for interpretation. I'm not sure that means the connector is different or just a few wires....I'm going w/the latter as Josh is very knowledgeable and would have pointed it out. But I have read that it's a pretty easy swap...that's the main reason I'm attempting it! Edit: Per Josh: "The turbo ECU has the same plugs as the non-turbo ecu. So it's just a matter of adding the pins." There are also some pinout differences between the Turbo and NA: http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/ecupins/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I'm having a hard time finding a turbo sedan though. I have a couple legacys but don't want to put a turbo motor in either of them because one's a total piece of crap and the other one runs perfect but they're both wagons. I've found several but they're either auto or high milage or too much asking price. You are in Subaru heaven being on the we(s)t side of WA state. And not too far from Portland, OR. Lots of people driving lots of Subarus...I think you're in about as good an environment as it gets for finding a swap-candidate. I watch the Seattle Craigslist from over here near Spokane, WA and get jealous of the selection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimokalihi Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Haha! I am? That's cool. They still seem kind of rare. Turbo 1st gen sedans that is. I'd rather just buy a turbo sedan than do the swap. I watch craigslist at least once a day. No luck so far. I found one in Tacoma, WA on legacy central but the guy said he no longer wanted to sell. It had WRX suspension and WRX front and rear seats too. Only thing was he hadn't put the engine in yet, which worried me but I guess he doesn't want to sell it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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