axel Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I've been using PBR Axxis/Ultimate ceramic KevlarBrake pads on my 2000 Legacy GT wagon, and they're outstanding. However the one negative is the pads do wear out fairly quickly. The rear pads are now down to about 3mm of material after 28,000 miles. The fronts were replaced not too long ago when I installed slotted front rotors. If I replace the rear pads with semi- metaliic ones for longer pad life do you expect that overall braking performance will be compromised in any way since there will be different pad material on the rear ? Also, is it really necessary to have the rear rotors resurfaced before installing new pads there? Braking performance is totally smooth with no hint of vibration or warping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I doubt you will see much difference at all and no you don't need to resurface your rotors as long as they are in good shape+1 in the past 15+ years of owning dozens of subaru's i've never had the rear rotors resurfaced or even replaced. they rarely need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoahDL88 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 You will want to rough up the rotors though, if you put a new pad on an old rotor it won't bed in properly and you'll never get a good brake feel. Just hit them with a scotch brite pad in a small circular motion all around the disc, both sides. and make sure to clean them real well before you put the pads on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash321 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) You will want to rough up the rotors though, if you put a new pad on an old rotor it won't bed in properly and you'll never get a good brake feel. Just hit them with a scotch brite pad in a small circular motion all around the disc, both sides. and make sure to clean them real well before you put the pads on. +1 and as long there are no grooves in the disk Edited January 3, 2009 by crash321 misspell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedhead Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Try a set of Hawk HPS. You won't go back to anything else. Low Dust, Great Braking, and Long Life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) Hawk HPS pads are very good but they're about $85 or higher per set(for front)at least $75 rear. PBR Axis/Ultimates are available for about $42 front, $38 rear. Stopping power and fade resistance about the same for both brands. A bit less dust(maybe) and longer pad life for Hawk. Edited January 3, 2009 by axel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Regarding grooves in the rotor.... When I originally removed the front stock pads, I noticed that the inside surface of one rotor had a groove in it where the Subaru pad material had crumbled and gotten between the rotor surface and the pad, causing the rotor to become scored. I elected to install the PBRs anyway, without having the rotor resurfaced. I've experienced no braking issues whatsoever because of the unresurfaced scored rotor. Braking is smooth, powerful and quiet. BTW, Upon removing the original Subaru pads, I noticed that the pads were full of small cracks along with the evidence of crumbling. Don't think the Subaru stock pads are of very high quality. At least they weren't on my 2000 Sube. No crumbling or cracking with the PBRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash321 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Regarding grooves in the rotor.... When I originally removed the front stock pads, I noticed that the inside surface of one rotor had a groove in it where the Subaru pad material had crumbled and gotten between the rotor surface and the pad, causing the rotor to become scored.I elected to install the PBRs anyway, without having the rotor resurfaced. I've experienced no braking issues whatsoever because of the unresurfaced scored rotor. Braking is smooth, powerful and quiet. BTW, Upon removing the original Subaru pads, I noticed that the pads were full of small cracks along with the evidence of crumbling. Don't think the Subaru stock pads are of very high quality. At least they weren't on my 2000 Sube. No crumbling or cracking with the PBRs. Regarding the crumbling, I see you reside in N.E. Cali. If you are around the mountains, do you know if the road crews put out that liquid deicer before a snow or ice storm. If they do, that could be that cause of the crumbling problem. I'll explain, I am in the trucking industry, since juristictions started using this liquid deicer, maintenance faucilities started noticing that brake shoe friction material on the trucks and trailers where delaminating, cracking and crumbling. This is caused by a layer of rust that builds up between the friction material and the metal backer. This liquid deicer is much more corrosive than the regular salt used in most areas. More states are starting to go with this method of pre-emptive deicing because they are trying to cut down on expenses and manpower. The only drawback is that it will reak havok on any exposed metal part on a car. This is also the reason my brand new Freightliner started to rust right after the first winter season, And I washed it weekly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedhead Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Hawk HPS pads are very good but they're about $85 or higher per set(for front)at least $75 rear.PBR Axis/Ultimates are available for about $42 front, $38 rear. Stopping power and fade resistance about the same for both brands. A bit less dust(maybe) and longer pad life for Hawk. If You shop around, You can get both sets (f&R) for around $140. They'll out last the Axis pads so You'll be changing them less often. So in the long run, Your paying $20-30 more for the Hawk pads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Regarding the crumbling, I see you reside in N.E. Cali. If you are around the mountains, do you know if the road crews put out that liquid deicer before a snow or ice storm. If they do, that could be that cause of the crumbling problem. I'll explain, I am in the trucking industry, since juristictions started using this liquid deicer, maintenance faucilities started noticing that brake shoe friction material on the trucks and trailers where delaminating, cracking and crumbling. This is caused by a layer of rust that builds up between the friction material and the metal backer. This liquid deicer is much more corrosive than the regular salt used in most areas. More states are starting to go with this method of pre-emptive deicing because they are trying to cut down on expenses and manpower. The only drawback is that it will reak havok on any exposed metal part on a car. This is also the reason my brand new Freightliner started to rust right after the first winter season, And I washed it weekly! Wow, that is really disturbing. Anything to save a buck so they can pass it on to someone else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 Not much snow in my neck of the woods. No deicing solution used on the roads around here. Anyway, It was just the original stock pads that showed cracking and crumbling. None on my PBR Axxis/Ultimates. I'd say that the original factory pads were of mediocre quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 +1 and as long there are no grooves in the diskGrooving has to be fairly deep for it to be the sole reason to resurface or replace rotors. For info on that and other brake issues, see: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/FrictionFeb06EW.pdf . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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