Gloyale Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 So I've got a 95 Leg here, with a 4EAT. Some history. Last month, trans was slipping......Low fluid......filled up on;y to find it pouring out the rear output. Replaced rear output seal, all was good. Now(month later) trans again was low??? No signs of leaks, no ATF in front diff?No signs in of ATF in Coolant. Where did it go? Dunno? But anyhow, filled it up again. Test drive and the car will drive up at first, but when it reaches 10-20 mph, it suddenly looses all engagement between motor and trans. Gentle, not a thud or thunk. Just *slips loose*. Also, there is seemingly very little drive to the rear end, as the car peels out front wheels in dirt. No trans fault codes and I KNOW the AWD worked last month. Low line pressure could cause both problems? But what would cause the pressure to go low? Bad pump? faulty solenoids?(again, no codes) Could at least the "no go, free rev" aspect be a torque converter issue? I will be testing line pressure and transfer pressure, just want to check with the "think tank" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 i had a 4EAT a few years ago that would do that. seemed like a certain load would just cause it to "free rev" essentially RPM's shoot up like in neutral and zero power. climbing a steep grade it would slip at a lower speed than flat, for instance. gradually letting off the pedal to a certain point would get it to engage again. but it gradually got worse. i never figured out what was wrong and assumed the trans was toast so i replaced it. i'll be interested to see what this turns out to be. Could it have been damaged the first time it ran low? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 SOUnds like 2nd gear clutches are shot. How is reverse. It can also be a front pump issue, not putting out enough pressure to keep all the rquired clutches engaged at the same time. The low fluid the 1st time may not have done it, but the 2nd sure did. Maybe a front pump seal let loose? nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 SOUnds like 2nd gear clutches are shot. How is reverse. It can also be a front pump issue, not putting out enough pressure to keep all the rquired clutches engaged at the same time. I thought about this too. And also the brake band which would cause second and reverse to free rev if too loose. But I tensioned the band abit, and nothing changed. And a further test drive reveals that with very light load/small throttle it will run and shift up through at least 3rd. Put o load on, like stomp gas, or go uphill, and it get's nothing. Let off throttle, rpms come back down and everything hooks up again. All very smooth, but abrupt and quick changes from engaged to "free" The low fluid the 1st time may not have done it, but the 2nd sure did. Maybe a front pump seal let loose? nipper I am thinkin the second time it isn't low, but holding alot of fluid in the valve body places it shouldn't be. I think it has blown a seal between 2 passages, and when the pressure goes high, A valve is opening or being pushed on the wrong side and something is diengageing I want to know too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 You may have blown the 2nd gear piston or acumulator, i would have to look it up to see which is which. There is no place for the fluid to collect in the valve body. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 You may have blown the 2nd gear piston or acumulator, i would have to look it up to see which is which. There is no place for the fluid to collect in the valve body. nipper All gears function normally when load is very light. Shifts through 1st, second, third. will free rev in 1st even if you stab throttle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 You just have slipping clutches. Its tired. Its just time to retire it and get another tranny. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) wow - the similarities are uncanny! sounds like a 4EAT failure mode. be interesting indeed to find out what caused this and why. with very light load/small throttle it will run and shift up through at least 3rd. Put o load on, like stomp gas, or go uphill, and it get's nothing. a certain load would just cause it to "free rev" essentially RPM's shoot up like in neutral and zero power. climbing a steep grade it would slip at a lower speed than flat, for instance. Let off throttle, rpms come back down and everything hooks up again. gradually letting off the pedal to a certain point would get it to engage again. on mine - it ended up getting worse over a couple months. at first i could turn the car on and off once...then a few times to make it quit doing that. then over time it also started to loose higher gears. no 4th, no 3rd...all the way down to only 1st gear and all through that time it would do the same thing as described above. *** the only odd part is the turning the car off/on to get rid of the symptoms when they first started to appear. not sure why that would have any affect on a failing trans. actually i was driving back from a board members house in KY when i lost 3rd, so it was 2nd gear from KY to MD - that was AWESOME! 17 hours or something sick like that, guess i'm lucky i made it at all. Edited February 12, 2009 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abog Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Test your line pressure, bet it's low. Clutch's aren't getting enough pressure to lock under load. If there has been any amount of slippage, the trans is done. Time for a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 You just have slipping clutches. Its tired. Its just time to retire it and get another tranny. nipper Sorry nip but you aren't listening. It is not slipping clutches. It is consistent in any and all gear ranges, actually you can get the car to drive fairly normal unless you give it gas, then everything disengages, and revs go. It is not a simple "slipping cluthes" I am sure it is realted to hydraulic pressures. I am the fixer, not hte owner. I don't want to say "get a news tranny" to the customer if I can fix what he's got by replacing a solenoid or unsticking a valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Sorry nip but you aren't listening. It is not slipping clutches. It is consistent in any and all gear ranges, actually you can get the car to drive fairly normal unless you give it gas, then everything disengages, and revs go. It is not a simple "slipping cluthes" I am sure it is realted to hydraulic pressures. I am the fixer, not hte owner. I don't want to say "get a news tranny" to the customer if I can fix what he's got by replacing a solenoid or unsticking a valve. i'm sticking with slipping clutches. Since you think i am wrong (it happens as the car is not in my driveway) throw some pressure gauges on the transmission and find out what going on pressure wise, either way the tranny is toast. And yes with slipping clutches under light throttle everything is fine, give it too much throttle it feels like the car is in neutral. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I've experienced the same thing and I can understand where Gloyale is coming from. But also, I do not know what slipping clutches in an auto feels like. It is odd - it's totally binary in nature. Like - totally fine - then totally not. Totally in drive/gear then totally nothing - free reving in neutral. There's no in-between at all, there's a definitive line. So it might be hard to imagine it being "clutches". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Nah, you can feel it unload and then rengage. I know what slipping clutches feels like. It happend to my Turbo wagon. I am sure that a valve is sticking or solenoid. The Trouble shooting Flowchart in the FSM supports that theory. Non of the symptoms are attributted to slipping clutches in the FSM. The one other thing possible is a failing torque converter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Hmmm, sounds like my legacy. Subscribing to this thread to see what the outcome is. And the fluid disappearing act, I know what you're talking about there. Mine did the same. Right before it decided to die as well. If I figure anything out, I'll post it up for you to think about. Twitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) So, update. The line pressure test is low. Stall test is slightly low but passes. So, TQ is likely OK, but it seems the pump is shot. In addition there is a whine like a Power steering pump whine, but from the trans, so there is more evidence of bad pump So I removed the trans, and also found ALOT of heat scorching of the metal on the pump drive tube. Heat scorching was at the end where it mates to pump. Also the fluid looked like slightly red coffee, grounds and all. I'll try to get pics up when I disassemble the pump. Edited February 15, 2009 by Gloyale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abog Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Thats what I thought it sounded like. Make sure you take a look at the clutch's, more than likely they will be damaged or worn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 awesome thanks Gloyale. i didn't know much back then so i didn't have a choice (and i had a free trans anyway), but glad to know i didn't swap trans for an easy fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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