aussieliberty Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 hey guys im new with all this but bear with me... I need help!! Ive got a 91 liberty wagon AWD EJ22 5sp Man which is giving me problems!! firstly, the gearbox has 'done a bearing' (what i was told by the mate i bought the car from) and after driving around with a grinding gearbox for a few months fourth gear stopped working alltogether. This wasnt the major problem though. After driving around with no fourth gear for a while something has happened in the engine. Big clouds of smoke are coming out the exhaust when it is first started then periodically when driving and there is also a sort of lag or lack of power lower down in the rpm. Checked the CEL codes and its showing: Code 24 - Air control valve Code 35 - Canister purge solenoid Also when looking around i pulled out the dipstick to check the oil while the engine was running and smoke comes out the dipstick tube. I also noticed (not sure if this is relevant) when i pulled off the hoses between the airfilter and throttle body to have a look around, that there is a lot of oil in the actual hoses. Sorry bout the long post but i need some help as to whats gone wrong and what to do about it!! thanks heaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieliberty Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 so upon further inspection of the car and looking around the forum i have come up with two possible answers... There is a large buildup of oil in the box between the airfilter and the throttle body (over 100ml) which appears to be coming from the breather pipes on the rocker covers... took pipes off and ran engine and a fair bit of smoke and some oil came out of the breather pipes. Cleaned out the PCV valve (at least what im pretty sure is the PCV valve!) which had a fair bit of junk built up in it and probably couldnt close. Still getting CEL codes 24 & 35. From searching the forum i am guessing its either a damaged piston ring or the valve stem seals? but i am fairly new to all this and so would love some help!! Thanks again for everyones time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 G'day, mate. Can't really answer your questions but at least I can keep you company 'til someone else comes along! PCV screws into the right (passenger--oops, over here it's passenger!) side of the intake manifold. After you cleaned it could you shake it and hear it rattle? Did you also clean the rubber tube that leads to it? The PCV is relatively cheap--might be good to throw a new one on anyway. Beyond that, no idea about the excess oil and the smoking. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieliberty Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 haha g'day mate, thanks for the reply. Sounds like i found the PCV alright. after i had cleaned it could see the valve move up an down and hear it rattling but as you say may as well try a new one. cleaned up the rubber tube also had a fair bit of build-up in there too. thanks for your help!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry DeMoss Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Your next best option would probably be to to a compression test on it to see the condition of your piston rings. The testers aren't terribly expensive either. They just screw into the spark plug holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieliberty Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 yeh thats a good idea thanks jerry. Looks like a pretty simple test to do and should give me a good indication of the condition inside without having to pull it all apart! thanks for your suggestion ill post back the results when i do the test just to check im doing it right!! thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry DeMoss Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Let us know what you find. I have a '92 liberty (legacy here) turbo that I would like to compare your results to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieliberty Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 ok so i did the compression test with the following results... Cyl1 - 180psi Cyl2 - 95psi Cyl3 - 185psi Cyl4 - 60psi Uh oh!! Those numbers were dry test. about to go back out now and check 2&4 again wet to determine if its valves or rings to blame... ill post again when ive done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 ok so i did the compression test with the following results...Cyl1 - 180psi Cyl2 - 95psi Cyl3 - 185psi Cyl4 - 60psi Uh oh!! Those numbers were dry test. about to go back out now and check 2&4 again wet to determine if its valves or rings to blame... ill post again when ive done that. 2 & 4 are low, they are on the same cam shaft. i bet it has jumped time on the left side. pull the timing cover off the cam sprockets and check. it's a non interferrence engine so no worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieliberty Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 that would make sense actually and i really do hope your right!! i re-did the compression test as i forgot to warm the engine up the first time and heres what i came up with... Dry Wet Cyl 1 - 180 - Cyl 2 - 110 110 Cyl 3 - 187 - Cyl 4 - 70 72 this would seem to show that it is the valves to blame rather than damage to the rings or cylinder walls? or as john said because both the cylinders came up low on the same side could it be a timing thing? any help would be appreciated!! thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I would first check into the left side of the engine for a timing belt problem. You may not be able to get both of those cylinders as close as the right side but hopefully it will be closer after resetting the belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieliberty Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 that definately seems like a good idea and a much easier thing to check than valve seals!! so i have just pulled off the t-belt covers and all the other stuff in the way to have a look at the belt and something is troubling me... when i first was rotating the crank by hand using the accessory pulley i obviously couldnt see the timing mark on the front of the crank pulley so i used the right side cam pulley marks to line it up. With the right side lined up (cyl1&3) i then checked the left side (cyl2&4) and sure enough it appeared to be off by a tooth or two. However when i removed the accessory pulley off the crank to check the crank mark it showed the mark was way off (at about 4-5pm instead of 12 where it should be) I then checked the valve position with the crank pulley marks lined up by removing the rocker cover and the valves appeared to be in the right position (all closed yeh?) i also assumed that if the cams were as far off as they appeared to be by the marks earlier then the car wouldnt have run which it has been earlier... So my thoughts are that the cam sprokets have been put back on in the wrong position at the last timing belt change... would this be right?? Should i put everything back on as it was or try line up all the marks and see what happens? non interference so couldnt hurt i guess? thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm not sure what to say about the crank position. I would try to get 2 & 4 in the right position and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieliberty Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 so i should go by the cam positions rather than the crank? think i might try line it all up to the marks and see what happens haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieliberty Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 ok so that didnt work... now i assume that the cam sprockets were put on incorrectly and go back to the positions they were in (lucky i marked them!!) except the left cam needs to be advanced one tooth... see how that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Hmmm, can cam sprockets even be installed incorrectly? It's been a couple of years since I did mine so can't remember the details. My thought would be to pull the belt off and line everything up according to the marks (or if you don't have marks on the belt, you can count teeth). Do you have instructions to go by? If not there's been a lot posted here over the years. Try a search. There's an excellent article from Endwrench that's a great help. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieliberty Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 good point about the cam sprockets now i think of it there should only be one spot they can fit on like you say. just doesnt make sense to me!! yeh i found heaps of threads on here and used the endwrench article was sorta confusing but did help. Ive only ever done one t-belt before an that was on a EA82 which was a little different!! but this was pretty straightforward. did like you said anyway and lined everything up but it didnt start or even come close by the sound of it. usually starts first kick. so im gonna put the belt back on the way it was i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Well now, that's discouraging ain't it? Did you use the right cam & crank marks (not the arrows)? Didn't disturb the cam and crank sensors, did you? Spark plug wires all on? Did it try to fire at all when you cranked it? You know, there's a really simple answer to this. I just don't know what it is right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 are you using the correct timing marks to line it up?? not arrows but small hash marks, the cam marks are on the front outer edge of the sprocket. the crank is on one of the reluctor tabs at the rear of the sprocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieliberty Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 hahaha dont i feel stupid... yet again you guys were right!!! i went by the arrow on the crank sprocket and only realised when i had it all back on there was a mark on the back which i was meant to be using!!! at least that is easy fixed!!! anyway assuming that she fires up again after that... what would be my next step? could the incorrect timing be the cause of the smoking or just partially to blame? do i put it all back together and re-compression test? or just cut my losses while ive already got some stuff off and move straight on to splitting the block assuming its valves? thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Hopefully you will be able to correct the problem that the left side timing had and things will be ok then. Once the timing is set correctly then we can see if there is a possibly valve problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieliberty Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 yeh put the belt back on properly and put it all back together and still smokin!! gonna test compression again tomorrow i think. i really wished it was just that timing issue!! ah well... any other ideas?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry DeMoss Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 The problem with smoking may lie with your turbo. A shaft seal on it may be leaking by some oil and dumping it in the turbine section and out the exhaust it goes. I have seen that before and I am not sure why I didn't think of that right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieliberty Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 sorry jerry its N/A forgot to mention that at the start... thanks though!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry DeMoss Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 No problem, that is even easier to diagnose then. If it were my car the next step I would take would be to add some motor flush type addative to the oil and try to flush some of the gunk out of it and maybe that would help things out. I would just add the motor flush and let it sit idle for up to 30 min. running and drain the oil and then add fresh. The other thing it could be if that doesn't help and it should is your valve stem seals are allowing oil to leak by. That is what I would do. Just my .02c:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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