nbiehl Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Any one have this problem? 99 Outback Wagon manual transmission. When I push the clutch in, it does not come all the way back up when I let off. It seems to fully disengage, it just doesn't return all the way. If I get underneath the dash and push it with my hand and let it snap back hard, it fixes the problem for a few moments, but it doesn't stay fixed. This just started happening this afternoon. Ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Slave cylinder if it's not the floor mat. Other choices are master cylinder. Worst case it the 2 little clips that hold the clutch fork to the TO bearing. Cheap but hard to get to (gotta pull engine or trnas). Miles? Last clutch job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Slave cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbiehl Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 Not the floor mat. 164000 miles. I've had her a week and I'm in the process of tracking down older owners, so I don't know about the clutch job. How do I check to see if its the slave cylinder? What am I looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 You're having classic slave cylinder symptons. Sometimes bleeding it will help for a short period of time - but you're kidding yourself. After all how did the air get in there? They are only like 50 bucks. 2 14mm bolts IIR. A dab of grease. Need to remove the airbox to get to it - but it's very easy to do. Bleeding it can be a bit of a pain. DOT 3 fluid if needed. Probably a procedure around here somewhere. But at that miles and that age, and the cost of a slave cylinder it would be the first thing that I did. Note that when bleeding it can be a pain. Aften I push the shaft(perhaps incorrect word) into the slave to get air to flow up to the master cylinder. It's often a bit stiff but can be done. I only do this after trying to bleed it in the normal manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) http://www.northursalia.com/modifications/drivetrain/cbleed/cbleed.html Thats for an RS but everything should be pretty close to whats mentioned in the article. It will give you a starting point on removal. Edited April 7, 2009 by Durania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbiehl Posted April 8, 2009 Author Share Posted April 8, 2009 Thanks for the help, folks. I'm going to go over both cylinders and the hoses tonight to see if I can pinpoint any leaks. Parts estimates around town for the slave cylinder $76-93. The most reputable shop in town told me their part costs "a whole lot more than ($93) since I use genuine Subaru parts." WTF? The $93 quote was from a Subaru dealer. The $76 quote is for an OEM part from an import shop. Why would that shop need to charge a whole lot more? The "famous" shop also told me its likely that the whole clutch is worn out (which could be true) and then quoted me $400 more ($1200) for a full clutch replacement than the other import shop ($800.) Anyone got any recommendations for a good online source for OEM parts? What are some of the signs/symptoms that I need to replace the whole clutch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 If the clutch is still operating fine, I'll bet it isn't the master or slave. My guess is that the spring that is supposed to be up on the pedal mechanism has gone AWOL. It happens alot, but on the cable clutches not so noticable. look up at the top of the pedal, there should be a clothespin style spring up there, if not, look around on the floor for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 For slave cylinders I never go OEM. Just isn't really that high tech or much of a Subaru specific part to spend the extra cash on it in my opinion. NAPA seems to stock them better than Advance or my local place. I bought a couple last year and I think they were right around 48-55 bucks. I have had one like Gloyale says - the spring clip on the pedal itself - easy fix. I might suggest pulling the car up on rhino ramps or something to make it easier to see - get it off the ground a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbiehl Posted April 8, 2009 Author Share Posted April 8, 2009 My guess is that the spring that is supposed to be up on the pedal mechanism has gone AWOL. I really hope you are right, and I will look, but I don't think it's as simple as a spring. Here's why: I go to work before dawn. I get off at 3 pm. For the past 2 days, the clutch has worked fine in the mornings, and acted up on the way home. If it were a missing spring, I think I'd have the problem all the time. The only thing that seems to change between those two drives is the temperature outdoors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 You don't need to worry about pulling it on ramps to change the slave cylinder. Its right there on the drivers side of the engine bay. Bleeding it is the most time consuming part. Helps to have a friend push/release the pedal while you do the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 You don't need to worry about pulling it on ramps to change the slave cylinder. Its right there on the drivers side of the engine bay. Bleeding it is the most time consuming part. Helps to have a friend push/release the pedal while you do the rest. Correct. The ramps were to make it easier to look for the clip INSIDE the car on the clutch pedal arm. But it's sounding more and more like it's the slave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbiehl Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Update: Examining the slave and master cylinders, there are no visible leaks from either, and the fluid in the master cylinder is at the maximum level (slightly above, actually.) I did not try to bleed the slave (busy family weekend) The slave cylinder has "NEW" written on it in white marking pen. That doesn't mean jack, but does suggest that the slave has been replaced. The marking pen is really visible, not much dirt or corrosion on it. Again, I realize this tells me nothing conclusive, and might be wishful thinking on my part. The the pedal actually seems to stick before the mechanism starts to put pressure on the slave cylinder, and right after the slave cylinder is no longer able to put pressure on the pedals return travel. When it gets stuck, it requires almost no pressure at all to get the pedal to fully return. Just a slight nudge and it snaps right up to the top again with a hard thunk. You can toggle the pedal back and forth between stuck and unstuck like a light switch while the car is driving and it doesn't seem to engage the hydraulics at all. Is it possible that the pedal is sticking right at the point where the hydraulics let off and the spring is supposed to take over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 WHen they go bad they don't leak. Often the fluid gets dirtier because it's probably the rubber coming apart. Same thing as a master cylinder for brakes. Either could be bad. Of not bled properly. I've replaced a dozen slave's and no masters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Bump. Any conclusion on this? I am having the same symptoms on my 2002 Forester 5MT. - clutch pedal not returning properly; - it sticks about half-way up, but only in hot weather with A/C on; - does not seem to affect the clutch engagement/disengagement; - a slight lift from underneath the pedal with my foot will release the pedal; and then it sticks again on next gear-change. I tried to buy new seals for the master and slave, but Subaru does not sell the seals separately. I may just flush and bleed the system to see if this cures the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Flushing and Bleeding may work for a short time. Locally NAPA stocks the slaves, others it takes a day. All are a little over 50 bucks. Can be a pain to bleed. If you can when you bleed it look for Black in the fluid. If so you know some rubber components are failing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Had the same exact problem on my 98 Outback.The problem was intermittant, pedal would stick about 1/2- 3/4 way down, had to use toe to spring it back while driving which was really annoying, but otherwise worked fine. Mostly seemed temperature related, then the clutch started to slip, then it went altogether. New clutch -problem fixed. I was convinced it was the spring for sure before the clutch failed. Thats not to say it isn't your cylinders. How many miles are on the clutch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 How many miles are on the clutch? I had the clutch replaced about 20,000km ago, so it's almost new. But, my intermittent pedal-sticking started after that clutch job. ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I'm still thinking slave cylinder. I usually buy 95-99's that have 100-200k on them needing repaired. I had a stretch last summer where 5 of 6 manual trans cars had the slave fail immediatley or soon after the engine removal and install. I'm guessing it's a combination of age, miles, and the fact that perhaps it gets "over extended" while the engine is out of the car or something. Them's pretty good odds. So now I just budget the 50 bucks for a slave along with clutct kit and flywheel resurface on all manual ltranny's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I am having the same symptoms on my 2002 Forester 5MT.- clutch pedal not returning properly; - it sticks about half-way up, but only in hot weather with A/C on; - does not seem to affect the clutch engagement/disengagement; - a slight lift from underneath the pedal with my foot will release the pedal; and then it sticks again on next gear-change. I tried to buy new seals for the master and slave, but Subaru does not sell the seals separately. I may just flush and bleed the system to see if this cures the problem. Here's a (belated) update: - I replaced the Slave Cylinder last summer, and bled the system. - That cured the sticky pedal problem completely. - Now, 9-months & 20,000-km later, I am free of the sticky pedal symptoms. Moral of the story: A sticky clutch pedal is probably due to an ageing slave cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Awesome man. Thanks for the update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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