Loyale93v Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 did a compression test on the 93 loyale tonight. Cyl # 1 has 168 psi, Cyl # 3 has 155 psi, Cyl # 2 has 100 psi and Cyl # 4 has 150 psi. So I added a few drops of engine oil to Cyl # 2. The compression raised up 130 psi. I added a few more drops and let it sit a few minutes and it raised up to 170 psi. So the BIG question... can a ring job be done without pulling the motor out of the car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash321 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 No. Watch this and you will see why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale93v Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 No. Watch this and you will see why. the video shows him pulling a piston out of the block. the rings that press around the piston....that's what I would be doing? even on my 1993 EA82 engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 yep... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale93v Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 yep... BUMMER!!! Well that's no good. It only has 60,000 miles on it too. well its got to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Did the car sit for a long time (like years) without being started? 60k sounds very low to be having ring problems on a subaru, unless it dried out and a ring stuck when it was started after a long time. Also...it's not really that much of a problem to just use it as is if you don't mind adding oil occasionally... I had a ford courier with 36,000 miles on it (it sat for about 14 years in a chicken coop at one point). It had 130psi on three cylinders, and about 40psi on the fourth one. Ran great (probably a little down on power) and got 27mpg on the highway. Burned about a quart every 500 miles, but no visible blue smoke except on a cold start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Before you go pulling that low mileage engine, I would do two things. First, run some seafoam thru the oil and let it get good and warm. Drive it for about 25 to 50 miles and then do an oil change. Then use some "restor" for four cylinder engines. I had an older subie that smoked like a fiend. I put in one can of "restore" and it never smoked or used oil again, even with several oil changes. A low cost way to keep from haveing to pull the motor. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 The "wet" compression test trick doesn't work on Flat-Four boxer engines. The cylinders and the valves are laying on their side so the oil seals up the valve seats as well as the rings. It's likely that you have a valve seat issue more than a ring issue. Subaru's don't wear their cylinders and rings even after several hundred thousand miles. The EA series engines tend to develop valve seat and valve stem seal issues along with head gasket issues, and the connecting rod bearings eventually let go. The cylinders and rings are rarely at fault. Although you claim the engine only has 60k since a rebuild - I suspect anything I didn't rebuild myself so that's never a good sign IMO. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Subaru's don't wear their cylinders and rings even after several hundred thousand miles. I've pulled the heads on an EA82 with 220k on it -- you could still see the factory cross hatching on the cylinder walls. They don't eat out their bores like alot of other engines do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale93v Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 The "wet" compression test trick doesn't work on Flat-Four boxer engines. The cylinders and the valves are laying on their side so the oil seals up the valve seats as well as the rings. It's likely that you have a valve seat issue more than a ring issue. Subaru's don't wear their cylinders and rings even after several hundred thousand miles. The EA series engines tend to develop valve seat and valve stem seal issues along with head gasket issues, and the connecting rod bearings eventually let go. The cylinders and rings are rarely at fault. Although you claim the engine only has 60k since a rebuild - I suspect anything I didn't rebuild myself so that's never a good sign IMO. GD This engine has 60,245 ORIGINAL miles! No rebuild. It did sit, in a garage, for less than a year. and I have only given it a tune up since. i.e. plugs,wires,cap,rotor,pcv-valve, ran some sea-foam through the gas tank. oh, and an air filter. It has a definate random miss-fire sound from the tail pipe. "blub,blub...blub...blub,blub,blub" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale93v Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 It's likely that you have a valve seat issue more than a ring issue. Subaru's don't wear their cylinders and rings even after several hundred thousand miles. The EA series engines tend to develop valve seat and valve stem seal issues along with head gasket issues, and the connecting rod bearings eventually let go. The cylinders and rings are rarely at fault. So even still, valve seats, can it be done with the motor still in the car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale93v Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 Did the car sit for a long time (like years) without being started? 60k sounds very low to be having ring problems on a subaru, unless it dried out and a ring stuck when it was started after a long time. Also...it's not really that much of a problem to just use it as is if you don't mind adding oil occasionally... I had a ford courier with 36,000 miles on it (it sat for about 14 years in a chicken coop at one point). It had 130psi on three cylinders, and about 40psi on the fourth one. Ran great (probably a little down on power) and got 27mpg on the highway. Burned about a quart every 500 miles, but no visible blue smoke except on a cold start. Well, it didn't have a tree growing through it or anything. but someone else recomended something similar. I will definately spend the $20 before pulling it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 So even still, valve seats, can it be done with the motor still in the car? That would be a head job - so yes it can. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 cool I didn't know the wet test didn't work on boxers! nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Whoa there it is more than likely what has happened is because the car sat for 12 months you will find that some carbon has likely dried out and flaked off,this in turn has probably become lodged in a valve seat causing the loss of sealing. I would try some upper cylinder cleaner such as the Subaru stuff and run it through a few times to try and break down the carbon,this will hopefully result in fixing the problem without dismantling a low mileage engine. Whilst the engine is low mileage it is still pretty old timewise,I would seriously consider replacing Cooling system hoses.thermostat and maybe the usual culprits such as Cam and Crank seals as they do go hard over time when not used constantly Cam belts likewise would be very wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale93v Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) Whoa there it is more than likely what has happened is because the car sat for 12 months you will find that some carbon has likely dried out and flaked off,this in turn has probably become lodged in a valve seat causing the loss of sealing.I would try some upper cylinder cleaner such as the Subaru stuff and run it through a few times to try and break down the carbon,this will hopefully result in fixing the problem without dismantling a low mileage engine.Whilst the engine is low mileage it is still pretty old timewise,I would seriously consider replacing Cooling system hoses.thermostat and maybe the usual culprits such as Cam and Crank seals as they do go hard over time when not used constantly Cam belts likewise would be very wise. These are interesting points. I must admit though, I am very sceptical of products such as "restore" that claim to perfrom small miracles especially when there is or may be a mechanical component that is causing a failure. I have never heard of the "Subaru Stuff" upper cylinder cleaner, I surmise that this product can only be aquired at the dealership, am I right? Weighing out the options, it is worth a try to buy a cleaner and run it through and see what happens before I dismantle my relitively new engine. I will have to look up and locate the location of the cam and crank seals to inspect them. Are ther pictures in the FSM? This is all very good insight and information. Thank You. I learn a great deal of Automechanics at the school I attend. However one thing I can not get from a book is experience. And I thank the S.U.M.B for that!!! Edited June 28, 2009 by Loyale93v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Subaru upper cylinder and throttle body cleaner is in a spray can,spray it into either a carburetor or throttle body then leave for 5~10 minutes. Once this time has elapsed start the car (Outside in good ventilation) and run the motor at around 20~25% throttle whilst spraying in the remaining half of the can,Works a treat. This is a genuine subaru product and I would be surprised if it was only available here in Australia. I have experienced carbon trapped between the valve and valve seat from simply unscrewing a spark plug to do a compression test,luckily a borescope video camera gave the game away before the engine was stripped hence why I suggested those other options. Subaru cleaner retails in Australia for around $7.50 US so it isnt an expensive option for one or two cans. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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