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Troubleshooting '98 Forester 5-speed Clutch or Trans?


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11 replies to this topic

#1 wtdash

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 04:09 PM

Edit: It was the Pressure plate and/or clutch disk.

1998 Forester 'S', 167K miles.

Question: How can I diagnose if the clutch's Pressure Plate is bad vs. the transmission itself?

Issue:
Starting about 2 weeks ago, car won't shift into 1st or Reverse easily. Usually have to turn off car. Sometimes going into 2nd then into 1st, or into 4th then into Reverse works. Car shifts OK into 2-5 gears.

On advice we replaced the Slave and Master cylinders as there was a TSB on the Slave cylinder. Didn't help.

Edit: Put in Subaru Extra-S fluid <3K miles ago.

We pulled the engine (w/2 people it went quickly), and I noticed the Tranquil sleeve kit TO bearing looked bad so we replaced it along w/the pilot bearing, which looked fine.
TO bearing:
Posted Image

Here's what a new Tranquil bearing should look like (on the left):
Posted Image

After reinstallation (smoothest install ever!) it was a bit better for a few shifts but quickly returned to the same condition.

-Took it to the shop and they re-bled the master/slave cylinders which didn't help. They stated it appears the clutch fork is moving properly, just not fully disengaging the clutch. So they're leaning towards the PP vs. the transmission.

History:
-July '10, during a turbo project, a freshly (properly) turned FW and new clutch/PP/TO(tranquil)/pilot bearing all installed. Shifted and drove fine for about 2K miles, 'til I gave up on turbo project (due to tuning issues).

-In March '11 original engine w/new HG's installed. All the same clutch pieces reused - but I had a hell of a time getting the engine installed. Once installed seemed to shift/drive fine 'til 2 weeks ago. But due to the PITA install I'm thinking I messed up something......:confused:

Thanks for your time!
Td

Edited by wtdash, 12 June 2011 - 10:40 PM.


#2 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 11:43 PM

If it shifts fine with the engine off but is hard to get into gear with engine running - you surely have a clutch issue.

Is the fork pivot ball threaded into the correct boss on the tranny for the fork/slave being used - is the fork correct for the slave?

Was the flywheel turned too thin thus moving the assembly too far toward the engine?

I hope you figure it out man....

GD

#3 wtdash

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 08:03 AM


Is the fork pivot ball threaded into the correct boss on the tranny for the fork/slave being used - is the fork correct for the slave?

GD


As far as I know it's correct.

Was the flywheel turned too thin thus moving the assembly too far toward the engine?


GD


It was working fine up until the last couple of weeks, and the shop that turned it was pretty sharp - they'd done a lot of Subaru FWs.

Thanks,
Td

#4 grossgary

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 08:11 AM

what does PITA install mean? could any of that be related or it was just a nightmare job?

#5 wtdash

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 08:39 AM

what does PITA install mean? could any of that be related or it was just a nightmare job?

PITA= Pain in the Arse :-)

could any of that be related or it was just a nightmare job?


Not sure what you're asking....but when I installed the engine back in March I had a lot of trouble getting the engine/trans to come together. I probably forced something I shouldn't have and damaged one of the clutch components.

Thanks,
TD

#6 Fairtax4me

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 11:44 AM

Are you sure the clutch disc is installed facing the right direction?

Could also be a bent or cracked release fork.

#7 wtdash

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 11:54 AM

Are you sure the clutch disc is installed facing the right direction?


I just (last 1/2 hour) thought of that, too....and I can't be sure we bothered to check...we'll verify when we check the PP.


Could also be a bent or cracked release fork.

I read about them bending/breaking, so I had a new OEM just in case. We did inspect the fork and it looked fine.

Thanks

#8 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 12:04 PM

Just to verify the assumption that there is a clutch problem and that the pressure plate isn't being pushed far enough - rig something between the slave piston and the fork to get it to push farther and see if the problem goes away.

Also - have you or anyone else checked the end-play on the crank? I recently had to return an EJ22 I bought for a job because it had over .040" of end-play (service limit is .010" and nominal is around .005"). This could cause the crank and the entire flywheel/clutch assembly to move forward away from the release bearing.

If it were me at this stage of the game..... I'm checking crank end-play, fork and pivot ball part numbers vs. slave/MC parts, and then I'm putting in a verified thickness flywheel, brand new exedy clutch kit, and making damn sure I don't have to open it up again. :)

GD

#9 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 12:05 PM

I just (last 1/2 hour) thought of that, too....and I can't be sure we bothered to check...we'll verify when we check the PP.


They can't be installed backwards. Don't worry about that :rolleyes:

GD

#10 Fairtax4me

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 04:45 PM

They can't be installed backwards. Don't worry about that :rolleyes:

GD


I guess you've tried it then? I didn't bother to even check if you could when I had mine apart.

Funny story though
I helpd my buddy get a transmission for a Chevy truck out of the junkyard. Got the sucker off and the clutch was brand spanking shiny new. Pulled it off and found out the disc had been put on backwards. The heads of the flywheel bolts were worn shiny and the springs in the hub were worn shiny where they had been rubbing together. I can only imagine the noise it must have been making. Probably didn't want to shift into gear too well either. :lol:

#11 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 04:48 PM

You can't bolt-up the pressure plate with the disc turned around. EJ flywheels being built flat like they are..... the spring pack is too thick. It just won't go together that way. The spring pack must be in the cavity provided by the pressure plate.

I've done a few GM clutches...... I don't doubt that it could be assembled backwards - especially by the typical Chevy owner :rolleyes:

GD

#12 wtdash

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 10:44 PM

We replaced the clutch disk and pressure plate and the issue is fixed. I couldn't see any issues w/the old parts, but not sure what to look for. The pedal also was better - came back quicker and more normal engagement- was what I was told by the driver.

Thanks for the replies.

GD- Looks like 5-speed is back for sale....unless I do a 5-speed swap into my turbo wagon.;)




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