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mid-engine soob buggy? Thoughts comments


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12 replies to this topic

#1 s'ko

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 12:38 PM

I have this interesting idea wanted to put out there.

What is you took a EA82T engine w/a FWD tranny and mounted it in the middle of a buggy frame, then instead of having the axles power the wheels, you make them power two differentials, making it basically a 4X4.

I realize theoretically it is possible, would the engine/tranny be able to handle the extra load or would that depend on the diffs used. If I could find two soob LSD that would be great, but realistically I would probably have to go w/something from Toyota. Certain Celicas, Corollas and Supra/Cressidas all had LSD.

Here is a sketch of what I have in mind.

BW

#2 Meeky Moose

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 12:42 PM

you want a 2wd 5-speed turbo tranny, just holler, i have one of those hard to find buggers.. 76k on it..

#3 scubaroo

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 02:29 PM

:wave: I'm glad there is someone else out there who thinks out side the box. For several years I have though about an ORV like this, but using a transverse front wheel drive trans as the trasfer case a rwd trans and engine in a light weight frame. my only problem was a limited slip in the front drive diff, I see now that the're plentiful. good luck and remember all great invention were made by people who dared to be diffrent. :burnout:

#4 All_talk

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 03:40 PM

I also have thought about some configurations like this... you know great mines think alike and all that :D

Two major problems... overall gear ratio and the open center diff. The open center diff means that at best, with LSDs, two wheel drive, I guess you could weld it. The gear ratio is the bigger problem its now about 4 times lower than the stock subie, a car that topped out at 85mph will now struggle to hit 22mph. :rolleyes: Bigger tires will offset this but you would have to go 46 inchers just to hit 44mph. But for a slow speed off roader it may still have some promise.

Just some thoughts
Gary

#5 s'ko

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 06:44 PM

thanks for the input.

A low speed rock crawler would probably do ok w/part time 4wd.

Has anyone ever welded the front diff?

#6 iluvdrt

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 07:26 PM

wouldnt it spin the diffs in directions because the axles are spinning in the same direction. in a real 4wd truck the driveshafts spin in opposite directions. so you would have to get some reverse rotation gears in one of the diffs...... i think.

#7 s'ko

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 07:34 PM

you would have to flip one the diffs over.

I saw an episode of "Junkyard Wars" where a drag car they made lost all forward gears and could only go backwards, after one run in reverse, they flipped the diff over and it went forward.

#8 SubSandRail

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 08:02 PM

Do you plan to use it primarily in the sand? If so, four wheel drive is less important that power-to-weight ratio. With the same tires, a soob does way better that a jeep in the sand, because the soob gets more floatation and isn't digging a hole in front of the tires the whole way. Buggies and rails do WAY better than soobs and jeeps in the sand because they weigh much less.

A rule of thumb in the sand is that if you double the weight of the car, you have to increase the horsepower 4x, and the tire footprint 8x to compensate. Go for minimum weight and you will have fun with a lot less engine and tire (which will save a lot of money).

I built a rail frame around an 84 torsion rear end with the 3.9 diff. I made a mini drive shaft with a hub & sprocket. I put an old Kawasaki 650 engine in the back and chain drive the diff. The whole car weighs 800lbs and floats on top of the sand.

#9 bushbasher

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 03:00 AM

my idea is to use a motorcycle engine with a chain drive to a driveshaft system running front to back with sube diffs front and rear. The sprokets from the chain drive could be resized to get back some of the extra 3.9 reduction from the diffs.

#10 oddcomp

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 10:20 AM

just suggestion....
v drive

take your 2wd tranny and motor mount it in the middle straight not sideways like your thinking

get a v drive unit
run tranny to vdrive then vdrive to eitehr a chain box <go look up monster truck setups for what a chain drive is>

or a regular transfer case
so now all your weight is centered
instead of off to one side
and the engine is still mid mounted

v drives are used in boats but can be adapted to cars i think they make one for auto use.. i saw it on monster garage ..
and teh chain boxes well i looked and could not find tehm maybe i am thinking of a diffrent name

its essentially a a bit bigger than a shoe box with a input up high and dual outputs down low driven by a a thick heavy chain
just like a regular transfer case but with single gear range
some do have the ability to shift in and out of 4wd

i think if they are good enough to run 66" tires and a few thousand horse power then it might be good enough for a sube... :)

you could also easily make your own

oh yeah there is not differential in teh center of teh chain box
but i spose if your making your own you could adapt a lsd setup to it pretty easy .. hmmm

#11 SubSandRail

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 12:52 PM

I have participated in the design of several sand cars, and the biggest challenge has always been building a suspension and steering that can take a pounding.

Long travel coil-overs can cost a couple of hundred dollars each, and every time you break them jumping dunes, you pay that again. The torsion rear end of the early 80's soobs solves the strength problem without breaking the bank.

There is a lot to learn when building a car from scratch, and even after you have a rolling chassis it can cost $500 for all the little parts that are needed to make it work. Don't start unless you have a well-stocked garage available for a year, a couple of friends to help, $1000 in your pocket and $100 spare cash every payday.

If that does not describe your resources, find your local dune buggy/ sand rail guys and go help them tinker with their rigs. When you see what breaks and what holds together after each trip, you will be able to plan your rig better. Or pick a smaller project like a motorcycle powered gokart. You can improve your fabricating skills on a smaller budget and have a lot of fun.

My philosophy was "build it with inexpensive parts so I can afford to repair it".

#12 s'ko

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 02:18 PM

My philosophy was "build it with inexpensive parts so I can afford to repair it".



That's a great philosophy. I guess the main reason I was kicking the idea around was b/c I am getting a load of parts from someone and I will have a spare engine and suspension parts lying around.

There are lot's of obstacles right now to the project.
1) I am trying to pay off debt.
2) I already have a BRAT that I am playing with.
3) I have a g/f to take out. (You can see my priorities, huh? :D )

#13 SubSandRail

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 03:56 PM

No problem:

1. Start a towing business at the dunes. People are always breaking down out there. Use the money to pay off the debt and upgrade your Brat

2. Use your Brat to do the towing. You will be paid to drive on the dunes.

3. Take your G/F with you. I took my wife out to the rifle range for our first date, and she still married me. Of course she was on the Anchorage rifle team in High School, and likes to shoot anyway.

:) :) :) :) :)




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