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EA81-Weber-cold start


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62 replies to this topic

#26 opus

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:11 AM

When its open that 1/8" to 3/16" you cant move it by hand, its fixed. I want to narrow that up some. "Bending a tab"? There is no screw adjustment?

I think if I narrow that up, my problem will be solved. The gap is too big for 30 degrees and below.

Pumping the gas a couple times does naught.

#27 naru

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:39 AM

If you take the choke cover off,you will see what is going on re adjustment.

If richening by pressing the gas doesn`t help,then richening by adjusting the pull off is unlikely to help either.Maybe it needs to be leaner.Specs I`ve seen go between .12-.18 for different versions.

#28 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:52 PM

Pump the pedal once, start it, it fires fine but just burns the gas from the initial pump. Dont touch pedal, start again, burns a little bit of gas, dies. 3rd time, dont touch gas, start it...perfect. ...


Oh yeah, terrible on hot starts. Anytime to hit the throttle more than once, you're screwed.



You have described my Weber's Behaviour and I find that very interesting, since my Weber does Not have any Choke, nor the choke's butterflies, hardware, etc... I sent 'em New to another USMB member in Australia. So, I thought that Behaviour was due to No-Choke issue; but Since this thread shows me that it isn't exactly related to the Choke, it worth Share how I deal with that issues:

This Simple procedures fixed that problem for me, maybe it will help you:

When I want to start my "BumbleBeast" on cool mornings
(Engine Cold), I let the electric fuel pump to bring enough fuel to the Line by turning the key to "ON" until the fuel pump noise dissapears, then to "OFF" and back to "ON" a couple of times more, then I press the Gas pedal to the Half and release it before Starting the engine: The EA82 starts at once, at Low RPM but I let it idle for half minute, then I accelerate it for another Half minute before driving it.

When I want to Start my "BumbleBeast" on Hot
(normal engine temps), I keep the Gas Pedal pressed 1/4 and the EA82 starts pretty fast.

You're Right, if I pump the Pedal or floor it on Hot Starts, it will take many starter turns to start, and the Rest of your description is the same here; so I Kindly suggest you to try those simple procedures to Start your subie, and please let us know if those helped you.

Kind Regards.


#29 Idasho

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:56 PM

not gonna work.

The ea81 fuel pump doesnt operate until the motor is turning.

#30 ferox

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:06 PM

The ea81 fuel pump control unit runs the pump for a few seconds with the key in "on" as Loyale 2.7 T describes for the ea82.

#31 opus

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:08 PM

If you take the choke cover off,you will see what is going on re adjustment.

If richening by pressing the gas doesn`t help,then richening by adjusting the pull off is unlikely to help either.Maybe it needs to be leaner.Specs I`ve seen go between .12-.18 for different versions.


No, it surely needs to be richer.

#32 ferox

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:15 PM

No, it surely needs to be richer.


Your idle mixture screw setting would indicate a rich condition. What do your plugs look like?

#33 jonas

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:18 PM

Mine doesnt.

It does flood a bit on hot starts though, if you touch the throttle at all.


Ditto here. Not very often but it does happen. Mostly when it's hot outside.

#34 opus

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:19 PM

Your idle mixture screw setting would indicate a rich condition. What do your plugs look like?


Its solely choke related.

#35 ferox

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 03:27 PM

Its solely choke related.


Alright, you were describing difficulty with hot starts as well. We can only go with what you tell us, good luck.

#36 opus

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 03:36 PM

Hot starts are only an issue if you pump the pedal. I wont have to deal with that for 8 months now. :) Plugs are fine, tailpipe looks like a diesel.

With the choke properly adjusted, I start it and it pops open to this:

Posted Image

The choke adjustment cover will not change this. I can forcibly close the plates further but there is spring resistance. How do you adjust this gap narrower? I tried the pull of screw but it aint moving. It looks like that is how the factory set it.

#37 naru

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:00 PM

Hot starts are only an issue if you pump the pedal. I wont have to deal with that for 8 months now. :) Plugs are fine, tailpipe looks like a diesel.

With the choke properly adjusted, I start it and it pops open to this:

Posted Image

The choke adjustment cover will not change this. I can forcibly close the plates further but there is spring resistance. How do you adjust this gap narrower? I tried the pull of screw but it aint moving. It looks like that is how the factory set it.


Like I said,take the choke cover OFF.and it will be self explanitory.

#38 opus

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:48 PM

Are you talking about the little pin that the coil hooks onto?

#39 naru

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:11 PM

Are you talking about the little pin that the coil hooks onto?


No
This should help.See pages 11-12.
http://escort.mk3.pa...es/0686-04a.pdf
Looks like there is a screw adjustment under the plug.
Could not tell by merely looking at mine.
Good luck.

#40 opus

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:29 PM

There is but it seems to be soldered or something so it cant be changed. :D

#41 opus

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:22 PM

Problem has been resolved. I took the pull off cover off and found a screw driver that fit perfectly. It took a bit of finess but I finally broke the choke pull off adjustment screw free. I tightened it up a turn or so when it started. That in turn closed the gap on the choke plate more than it was, probably from 1/8" to a 1/16".

End of story.

#42 hatchsub

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:45 PM

Sweet glad you got it solved. Any chance you could post a picture of the screw that you adjusted. Dan if you see this...this is probably the same issue that the coupe has when it gets really cold.

#43 Idasho

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:50 PM

So it WAS the choke :rolleyes:

#44 opus

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:06 PM

I knew it was the choke, but it wasnt and adjustment you would get the normal way. Once it started the choke would pop open further than it should, giving a lean condition. Nothing to do with the plastic choke cover itself.

#45 ferox

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 02:08 PM

I knew it was the choke, but it wasnt and adjustment you would get the normal way. Once it started the choke would pop open further than it should, giving a lean condition. Nothing to do with the plastic choke cover itself.

I know you're not really open to hearing this, but I will say it anyway. The stock choke position should not really require adjusting if the carb is tuned correctly. If not, it can do damage to your engine. I am glad you got your car running better, but since you were not aware of what I was talking about with the idle speed screw earlier in the thread, keep an eye on things to make sure you're not masking an improperly tuned carb with choke adjustment. The idle speed screw is the most sensitive and critical adjustment on the Weber.

#46 opus

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 02:44 PM

Understood. Everything is proper. On cold starts, the choke wouldnt close enough to make it rich enough to run. Just like if you had a manual choke. When you pull the cable, it closes the choke tight. You start it, then adjust cable. Same thing here but its controlled by vacuum pull off. The pull of wouldnt allo it to close enough. You cant start a vehicle in the cold, if the choke wont close tight. Once it starts, of course you push the cable in a little to allow it to lean out enough to stay running.

#47 ferox

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:41 PM

Understood. Everything is proper. On cold starts, the choke wouldnt close enough to make it rich enough to run. Just like if you had a manual choke. When you pull the cable, it closes the choke tight. You start it, then adjust cable. Same thing here but its controlled by vacuum pull off. The pull of wouldnt allo it to close enough. You cant start a vehicle in the cold, if the choke wont close tight. Once it starts, of course you push the cable in a little to allow it to lean out enough to stay running.

Yeah more specifically what I am talking about is if the idle screw is turned in too much you will eventually bypass or partially bypass the idle circuit at which point you are mostly running off the secondary and it won't choke properly. With the carb set this way it will have a decent idle at around 1,000 rpms and make a lot of power in high speed operation, so it seems like everything must be set correctly or close to it. Fuel efficiency suffers, but many people don't use that or care about it as an indicator of proper carb tuning or attribute it to elevation or a heavy-pedal. Mostly I just want to make sure that if people pull this up later in a search that they know to follow the Weber tuning instructions and establish baseline operation before moving to choke adjustments because when the carb is properly tuned, the factory choke setting should work fine.

#48 opus

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:46 PM

Correct, once you get the baseline according to the manual, you can go from there...as I did. I'm at about 750 idle now.

#49 naru

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:09 PM

Yeah more specifically what I am talking about is if the idle screw is turned in too much you will eventually bypass or partially bypass the idle circuit at which point you are mostly running off the secondary and it won't choke properly. With the carb set this way it will have a decent idle at around 1,000 rpms and make a lot of power in high speed operation, so it seems like everything must be set correctly or close to it. Fuel efficiency suffers, but many people don't use that or care about it as an indicator of proper carb tuning or attribute it to elevation or a heavy-pedal. Mostly I just want to make sure that if people pull this up later in a search that they know to follow the Weber tuning instructions and establish baseline operation before moving to choke adjustments because when the carb is properly tuned, the factory choke setting should work fine.


I disagree.
The "factory" choke pull off spec varies according to application on stock Weber 2 barrels supplied as original equipment.

Not surprising it needs to be tweaked a little for a custom application.
I seriously doubt all those aftermarket DGEV kits come w/different choke pull off settings.

Perhaps the OP could measure his new choke gap more accurately w/a drill bit?
I`m sure this info would be useful to others.

#50 opus

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:46 PM

No, its too cold out! ;)

This is what it was. Its now half that.
Posted Image




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