14 replies to this topic

[su-version]

Noobie here wants to convert my 914 to a Suby drive train. I will have many questions as this project progresses and I can't tell you how happy I am to have found you guys. I've been lurking for awhile and believe this board more user friendly to the uninformed than Nasoic so I decided to pitch my tent here, so to speak. Before cars my hobby was homebuilt aircraft so it was a natural progression into the world of Porsche and it's aircooled engines. After bringing a couple of 914's and a Karmann Ghia back to life I began to think about water cooled and it's advantages not to mention the modern day electronics and air conditioning. It's easy to see that the flat boxer design that Subaru uses is a great platform for a Porsche engine replacement. Not to mention their stellar reputation.
There are 2 things holding me back at the present. First, I need to sell my Ghia to make room (I currently have 6 cars) and raise a little transplant cash. And second, I need to decide on which platform to pursue. I am considering one of two. Either the EJ25 Turbo or EZ30D N/A. I really like the sound of the 6 vs. the 4 and the fact that it is about the same HP/torque as a turbo 4. That and I would not have the inter-cooler dilemma to deal with. It's a Royal PITA to do in these mid-engined, originally air cooled cars.
My plan has been to by a doner, gut it and transfer over as much as possible including A/C, steering column, gauge cluster, tranny, etc. So after much Pontification my first 2 questions that I need help with. First, if I bought an engine/tranny combo only can the original ECU be flashed to my needs or should I look at aftermarket ECU's? Secondly, if the donor car were an automatic could I use a 5 or 6 speed w/o confusing the ECU? BTW, are there any shop drawings that show the dimensional differences between the std and automatics?

[monstaru]

Two words.
Stand alone.......
Second, awesome project.
cheers:clap:

[su-version]

OK, now I get to show my ignorance; what does "stand alone" mean, exactly. Does that mean to shed the OE ECU and go aftermarket? I've got so many questions you'll wish you'd never replied.

[Rally_Blue]

Stand alone means aftermarket engine management.

The Stinger, Vipic, and Mega Squirt are some examples of stand alone ECUs that have been used on subaru swaps and for power.

You mentioned NASIOC, and it is true there is a lot of crap you must filter through to get a kernel of information but here are some threads that would interest you.

http://forums.nasioc...d.php?t=2055900

http://forums.nasioc...d.php?t=2252813

Good luck with the project

[ferox]

Noobie here wants to convert my 914 to a Suby drive train.

So are you looking to build an AWD 914 or stick with 2WD?

[el_freddo]

Awesome!

I want to see pics of this - and how it progresses!

You can go the factory ECU if you can deal with all the wiring, security and the possible integration of the Body Computer Module (or some name of the like) which is where they incorporate EVERYTHING into the ECU. Stand alone makes sense here and they're the way to go for power in the long run IMO.

You'll love the H6 and manual combination. I've got a mate with the H6 and a manaul box in his liberty and it's a machine. Doesn't look like a WRX but would certainly give one a good run for it's money! With the right exhaust they sound awesome too (like an old holden 186 - an aussie thing). Bucket loads of torque right off from idle to the red line - bucket loads for a subi anyway.

I think you'll be loving the H6. I'm guessing that since this is a mid mount that you'll be going RWD only - if that's the case you'll need to find some sort of spool for the centre diff and a blanking plate for the rear output. Of course you'll have to sort out gear shift linkages from the rear of the box but this has been done before with other conversions (not necessarily on this forum). Dad did this when he dropped a 13B rotary into his VW fast back then 180'd the drive train to make it a mid mount. I was about 3 at the time!

Look forward to the development of this project!

Cheers

Bennie

[su-version]

Stand alone means aftermarket engine management.

The Stinger, Vipic, and Mega Squirt are some examples of stand alone ECUs that have been used on subaru swaps and for power.

You mentioned NASIOC, and it is true there is a lot of crap you must filter through to get a kernel of information but here are some threads that would interest you.

http://forums.nasioc...d.php?t=2055900

http://forums.nasioc...d.php?t=2252813

Good luck with the project

OK, I understand. This is the kind of info I seek. My goal was to reuse a lot of the Suby wiring but if this is asking for headaches I would spend $$ for aftermarket ECU. I'll read these in a few. Thx for the links

[su-version]

So are you looking to build an AWD 914 or stick with 2WD?

2WD 5 speed using a block off plate on rear drive. However, if a 6sp were to make itself available:D

[su-version]

Awesome!

I want to see pics of this - and how it progresses!

You can go the factory ECU if you can deal with all the wiring, security and the possible integration of the Body Computer Module (or some name of the like) which is where they incorporate EVERYTHING into the ECU. Stand alone makes sense here and they're the way to go for power in the long run IMO.

You'll love the H6 and manual combination. I've got a mate with the H6 and a manaul box in his liberty and it's a machine. Doesn't look like a WRX but would certainly give one a good run for it's money! With the right exhaust they sound awesome too (like an old holden 186 - an aussie thing). Bucket loads of torque right off from idle to the red line - bucket loads for a subi anyway.

I think you'll be loving the H6. I'm guessing that since this is a mid mount that you'll be going RWD only - if that's the case you'll need to find some sort of spool for the centre diff and a blanking plate for the rear output. Of course you'll have to sort out gear shift linkages from the rear of the box but this has been done before with other conversions (not necessarily on this forum). Dad did this when he dropped a 13B rotary into his VW fast back then 180'd the drive train to make it a mid mount. I was about 3 at the time!

Look forward to the development of this project!

Cheers

Bennie

Thx Bernie, I appreciate your input. And yes, I'll takes lots of pics because this will also post on a 914 board. Once underway it show be a 14-18 month project. Twelve months if I have time and extra $$$. The 914 chassis will require some bracing to prevent the uni body frame from flexing, so yes....lots of pics will follow. You got my attention when you said more power with stand alone. You mentioned the right exhaust....I've read similar comments saying the EZ30D was good for another 5-15hp w/ improved exhaust flow. And yes, RWD w/ blocking plate. Shifter will be off an MR2 or similar, cables and I'll fab some actuator plate on the tranny. IIRC, I saw a video of some Aussie racing a 914 w/ a 3.3 Suby turning an insane 8000 or 9000rpm. It was awesome sounding on my comp. Must be an incredible sound to hear in person.

[presslab]

There's "open source" hacking with the stock turbo ECU, so that's a plus. http://www.romraider...wforum.php?f=15

The EZ30D weights about 75 lbs more than the EJ257. Not a lot more, but the 914 is pretty flexy. Yep intercooler could be tricky; it'd recommend an air-to-water setup, that's pretty straightforward.

Here's has some stuff for the 5MT, like the spool, rear cap, and adapter flanges. http://www.subarugears.com

[nncoolg]

That 'subaru gears' website looks like they have some good gear aye. An AWD beetle would be awesome!

BTW, Presslab - I've been trying to contact you but the emails must not be getting through, could you please PM me? cheers!:cool:

[el_freddo]

Personally I'd be looking for the H6 that's got an individual exhaust port for every cylinder. I think you also get variable valve timing with this one too.

The exhaust I was talking about was on one of the above engines. I'll see if I can dig up the build thread on that subaru

Here's the link

Cheers

Bennie

[su-version]

The more I look at 2001-03 LL Beans the more I believe that I wont find one with a 5 speed. Any advice about converting any H6 Automatic to any 5 speed, if I go stand alone. Another rookie question; if you go stand alone does it matter if the motor/tranny is USDM or JDM?
Is the variable valve an EZ30 made after 2003? I need to stay with the EZ because of it's short length. Otherwise I end up cutting out some trunk.
Thx again for the tips.

[el_freddo]

The more I look at 2001-03 LL Beans the more I believe that I wont find one with a 5 speed.

If the US market is anything like it is in Oz, that's true as they only came from the factory as an auto.

Any advice about converting any H6 Automatic to any 5 speed, if I go stand alone. Another rookie question; if you go stand alone does it matter if the motor/tranny is USDM or JDM?

Go for it. A manual gearbox won't be an issue - no computer electronics to worry about - you only need to run the engine. The stand alone won't care what it's got behind it as it will just run the engine.

Makes things easy!

Cheers

Bennie

[su-version]

Hey guy's, Thought I'd better check back in so that I don't get a "flake" reputation. As always, thx for the replies. I'm about a 1/2" from joining Easy/Export to facilitate locating one. I did find an early 90's SRX 3.3 w/ a std but back to "it being too long" + I hear the later 5/6sp's are stronger. I'm afraid I won't have much to talk about for a few mo's. I'm selling my Ghia to $$$ this build. I was going to drop the $$ "one large" because of a small chip then my neighbor tells me he is expanding his dent-less repair business to include spot/paint repairs in Dec.:headbang:So, Dec at the earliest before any major gutting occurs. I did pick up nice a used/new Miller Mig w/ 300cf tank full of 75/25. The kid had only used about 1/4 of a spool. Then I found his motive to sell. The wire feed kept jamming because the wire wasn't seated in the feed groove + the wire cable that feeds the wire into handle/tip was not connected. He had the tension-er pegged to no avail. Once seated properly a#2 on the tensioner w/ .023 is fine.