1 Lucky Texan Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) the diagrams at opposedforces.com are unclear. On some models, there may be a removable "liqud tank" as it is called in the parts list. ebay offers parts that look like this; http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-AC-A-C-Accumulator-Receiver-Drier-Air-Conditioning-Filter-Dryer-/261152026959?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ASubaru&hash=item3ccddfb14f&vxp=mtr weird Edited May 16, 2014 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stackman1 Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 What you say makes sense about it being a welded end-tank and not a drier. So where is the stupid drier ) Look at the two pics. It appears all I have to get part of grille off is to work those 4 tabs? I have a terrible habit of breaking stuff do I use a screwdriver to push the 'tab' in the hole down. It is pretty plastic - afraid of using too much force but is that the technique? Once it is off I will gladly send you a pic of what a 2002 Impreza Outback Sport purchased in August of 2001 looks like...... https://www.dropbox.com/s/0x9aoyepkzaeqgw/front%20end.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/9alrx42tt3sy3kx/Tab.jpg I was able to push the tabs down and the plastic grill wants to come off but seems to be held on the bottom somehow. I don't see any screws. I really want to get a better look at my condenser and find my missing drier....Anybody know what I need to do after releasing the four tabs???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 There are two tabs on the bottom corners. FSM shows something that looks like a long screwdriver or awl being used to push the tabs from above after pulling the top of the grille slightly out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stackman1 Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) There are two tabs on the bottom corners. FSM shows something that looks like a long screwdriver or awl being used to push the tabs from above after pulling the top of the grille slightly out. Got the plastic grill off. Hard to get good pics and I am still at a loss as to where the hell the receiver/drier is. Unless it is behind the dash with the evaporator? Here is a pic from the front: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kvb7kihfuzsu1v7/cond.jpg Here is a pic from an angle. https://www.dropbox.com/s/n8ga92ki1bnx7wi/angle.jpg Here is a close up of the black cylinders' base and where it connects to the flaking silver 'end-tank'......that is what you called the flaking cylinder I believe? There are no inlet/outlet pipes going into the top or bottom of the black cylinder; just this welded port into the end-tank: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rnjb1ivdidpuz8t/Base.jpg My Label: https://www.dropbox.com/s/960janzh5zckm3w/Labe3.jpg Edited May 17, 2014 by stackman1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I see the cylinder you mentioned earlier now. Only a portion of it made it into the previous pics. It is odd with just that metal block at the bottom joining it to the end tank. I'd be interested to see the whole thing out of the car, but judging by the rust I see in the pics that's going to be much easier said than done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stackman1 Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 The purpose of that black cylinder is what? Do you think that was just a poorly designed transitional receiver/dryer? Should I just rule out the receiver/dryer being in the dash with the evaporator and expansion valve? Maybe this thing just doesn't have a standard setup. Hopefully o-rings and a good vacuuming will do the trick. Thanks for helping out. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stackman1 Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 Just thought I would update the thread. I never found the receiver/dryer. My Impreza simply doesn't have one - from what I can see! Anyway since the dealer last year told me my compressor was shot and a new one would cost me $920 installed. I began researching the web. I figured why not invest some money and try to fix my a/c myself. I couldn't understand why I should replace the compressor since I could see the clutch engaging. So I bought a Robinair Vacuum pump for ~ $80 and a Mountain manifold Gauge set for about $60. Bought an expansion valve from Rockauto for $15. And as GrossGary suggested I brought my two compressor o-rings in to Napa for a match for $1.30 (those looked ok though). Replaced the expansion valve because I thought I had icing issues. My car would blow coolish for 5 minutes then blow warm. Replacing the expansion value was a bit of a pain but I followed these awesome instructions - see link - photos were great. http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/general-maintenance-troubleshooting-accidents/141059-its-getting-very-warm-outside-need-c-help.html Then I put the vacuum on for about 40 minutes pulled 28-29 inches of mercury. Then let it sit another 40 minutes and it still held the vacuum. Figured no leaks. So I charged the system. The first can (12 oz) took a while to load. The second 12 oz - I only wanted to load about 5 oz because my car states 16-19oz.....but the refrigerant was sucked out fast. Can was empty before I really had a chance to monitor. Wondered if I got only a 1/3 can - but it felt like it had the same weight as the first one. Anyway, it ran cool and didn't stop after 5 minutes - my thermometer says 50 degrees. Today it was probably 75 in NY and I was completely comfortable - again about 50 degrees. Not sure if it will last or perform in the 90's but I gave it my best shot. I am going to Florida for the summer so I have my fingers crossed. So I spent $200 and maybe did something that will get me through the summer and learned a little bit. If it will cool at 50 degrees in 95 degree heat I will be very happy. Was the dealer tech just lying to me - seems pretty clear the compressor is working at least somewhat? If anyone has some ideas about the perfect pressures on the low and high sides please chime in. Would be nice to know if I have the right amount of refrigerant. Still really perplexed about the missing receiver/dryer. I have a 2002 Impreza OBS which I bought in August of 2001 - transition car? Dunno - if anyone ever comes across this and can give me some info that would be great. Thanks Everyone Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Thanks for the update. Glad it's working well, it should continue to do so as long as there are no leaks. Like you, I'm not sure what to think of the drier situation on that car. It seems odd that there wouldn't be one. In a perfect world, a properly evacuated system will have no moisture, thus no need for a drier. But... this is an imperfect world. Proper pressure is somewhat dependent on outside temperature. FSM says low side: 18-28 psi Hi side: 213-242 psi with ambient outside temp 86-95° Anytime I've filled a system that needed a partial can I open the tap very slowly on the second can. You should open the tap slowly anyway to prevent icing of the can. As the refrigerant in the can gets cold it lowers the pressure in the can and it doesn't move as much refrigerant into the system. You do have to be careful not to overcharge the modern systems. Most run lower pressures on the low side now (vs 35-45 psi on older systems), which means the cans are more likely to completely empty themselves when the compressor kicks on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stackman1 Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 FairTax That explains why my first can got so cold I couldn't hold it! I opened the valve all the way on both. The second one didn't get cold at all and was empty in a flash. I guess I slightly overfilled it since I supposedly put in 24oz instead of the 16-19 range but too late. When it gets warmer I will throw my gauges back on after it has been running awhile and check to see if I am in your psi number range. Really appreciate the feedback. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownLoyale Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Dealer was probably selling a compressor because they diagnosed it wrong. Looking at A/C gauges you don't want to see vacuum on the low side when its running. In fact there should be a low pressure cut out switch located on your receiver/dryer (should be by the pass. side strut tower below the horn) that cuts power to the compressor before it can pull vac on the low side. The reason it was able to pull vac when running was due to the faulty expansion valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stackman1 Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Crown - The car was not running when I used the vacuum pump. I assumed that was the proper method. After turning pump off I left gauges on and it held a vacuum - then I recharged. I will look again but I don't see a receiver/dryer on my model 2002 Impreza OBS. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Dealer was probably selling a compressor because they diagnosed it wrong. Looking at A/C gauges you don't want to see vacuum on the low side when its running. In fact there should be a low pressure cut out switch located on your receiver/dryer (should be by the pass. side strut tower below the horn) that cuts power to the compressor before it can pull vac on the low side. The reason it was able to pull vac when running was due to the faulty expansion valve.I agree that it was likely a misdiagnosis due to incorrect guage readings. The pressure switch is on the high pressure side. It only sees high pressure. It can only prevent compressor engagement if the total system pressure is too low. The low side will show vacuum on a manifold guage with the compressor running if the charge is excessively low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownLoyale Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Crown - The car was not running when I used the vacuum pump. I assumed that was the proper method. After turning pump off I left gauges on and it held a vacuum - then I recharged. I will look again but I don't see a receiver/dryer on my model 2002 Impreza OBS. Thanks No, you had that correct. I ment when the engine is running/air cond. active. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stackman1 Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 No, you had that correct. I ment when the engine is running/air cond. active. Hey Guys - I'm back with a troubling question. Last Year - with the help of this thread - I bought a Robinair 15115 Vacuum Pump and Mountain manifold gauges and successfully brought my 2002 Impreza a/c back to life. Back then - I was able to pull 29 inches of mercury - hold it and recharge. This year - once again facing Florida in the summer - I put my Vacuum Pump on with my gauges --> turned on the vacuum --> but the low side manifold gauge needle doesn't move even a little!!! Both gauge valves are open. I thought the pump sounded a bit stronger last year but who knows. It does suck but not sure if it is maxed. What am I missing? The pump has oil - is there a way to test the pump? It is odd and makes me think I am missing something obvious. My gauge valves are connected to the shraders.......odd that I see no initial bump on the needles....stuck at zero. I am going to process it a bit more because I bet it is something stupid but assuming I can't pull a vacuum and the pressure is at Zero - is it worth even try charging it? Any thought really welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stackman1 Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 I am a F##king idiot!!!! Never Mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Valves were closed? Gasket seal fell out? Must have a leak somewhere or you shouldn't have any need to charge it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Fess up, stackman. Just why are you an idiot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stackman1 Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Ok - you got me - it is so embarassing - you know how with a manifold gauge the hoses have dummy couplers to hang the hoses for storage.....you know where I am going don't you....when I pulled the central line off the manifold to attach to the vacuum pump - I used the wrong end of hose - I left the hose attached to the dummy manifold coupler in place and attached the other end to the vacuum pump. Trying to vacuum 6' of yellow hose.... like I said a f##king numbskull Ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stackman1 Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Ok. Well I finally hooked the vacuum up properly and pulled a complete vacuum and it held. I then: 1. Attached the first 12oz can of refrigerant to my central hose and - without the car on - opened the valve on the can and then both the high and low side gauge valves. A YouTube video suggested that it should reach equal pressure with the can. Then: 2. I closed both gauge valves. Started the car with the fan and a/c turned to 'on' position. Then opened the low side gauge valve. 3. The low pressure side climbed to 95 but the high side is barely hugging 50 and I don't think it even took half a 12oz can. I got concerned and stopped the procedure because the low side was climbing faster than the high side. 4. In all I spent about 10 minutes charging before aborting. 5. The compressor clutch plate seems to be spinning....... 6. Should I keep charging???? Not getting any cold air.... Any tips - greatly appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stackman1 Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Got bored and restarted charge. Now Low Side charging around 125psi and High Side 75psi but I don't think the 12oz can is nearly empty and I had an empty system. The fans behind the radiator are turning. If I turn the a/c switch inside off - the compressor hub stops spinning - goes on when I press on.... Headed to Florida in 2 weeks - could mean life or death this summer - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Is your valve open on the high side quick release? Make sure the valve on the manifold is closed, but make sure the valve at the fitting is open. Both low side valves should be open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stackman1 Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Is your valve open on the high side quick release? Make sure the valve on the manifold is closed, but make sure the valve at the fitting is open. Both low side valves should be open. My Gate valve on the Manifold is turned closed on the high side while charging. The fittings at the end of both hoses have snap-on couplings that automatically open each shrader valve when attached. I have the Low Side open with a/c on while charging. Just re-attached gauge and ran a/c with both valves open and the manifold readings show low 90's PSI on both sides. Only hot air. Ideas - suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 ours hold 22-25oz. (should be a label somewhere in the engine compartment with your car's capacity) you probably didn't put enough in after your vacuum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 With both valves on the manifold open you will have no pressure build even if the compressor is running. The refrigerant will just pass through the manifold and back to the low side. High side valve on the manifold should always be closed when charging. I would think maybe the coupler on the high side wasn't pushed on all the way before. How many cans total have you put in the system so far? Just 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stackman1 Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 With both valves on the manifold open you will have no pressure build even if the compressor is running. The refrigerant will just pass through the manifold and back to the low side. High side valve on the manifold should always be closed when charging. I would think maybe the coupler on the high side wasn't pushed on all the way before. How many cans total have you put in the system so far? Just 1? Thanks Guys - Texan - my 2002 supposedly holds 19oz. I have 2 cans of 12oz. FairTax - when charging (with the car running and a/c on) my High Side Gate valve on the Manifold is always closed. I got a complete vacuum before starting and it held - so when I began charging with the first can (Low Side open - High Side closed) - it seemed like it stopped sucking from the first can about half way through and the Low Side gauge reading was at ~ 120 PSI and so I got a little concerned. It seems in the past when charging, the system would suck in refrigerant as fast as it could get it. Did I just not wait long enough? I was charging for about 15 minutes and it only took in about 6oz. At least that's what it feels like. Should I just put it back on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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