wilsonjacob8 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Hey all, I finally got my turbo-delete rebuild up and running. Unfortunately, the fun continues as I begin the search for the source of a small leak of water into the crankcase. I have put about 300 miles (1 tank of gas) through the fresh build. The oil and coolant levels haven't dropped, but somehow water/moisture is making its way into the crankcase in high enough quantities to produce a light foam in the PCV tubing. What's odd is that the foam didn't accumulate on the underside of the oil cap like I would've expected it to. Being as I rebuilt a spare block with an unknown history, there could be a crack hiding just about anywhere. I know for a fact that the head gaskets are fine since I had both the heads and the block surfaced, and my compression is roughly 165psi (+/- 5psi) across all four cylinders. Additionally, I don't see any moisture coming out the tailpipe after the engine is fully warmed up. I am inclined to assume that it is most likely either of the heads that is cracked, being as the block used to be turbo'd. Anyone else have this experience? And, what is the best bet for sourcing a such a slow leak? I don't have oodles of time to burn, with school and work, but I would love to see this damn thing come together and be daily driven once more. I do happen to have two heads that aren't cracked and a new pair of head gaskets laying around, but I'd rather exhaust all options before I take the engine back out and go through all that again. Any help is greatly appreciated! Thank you! -Jacob PS - I don't know if it's directly relevant to this topic, but the rebuild was fairly thorough. I bought a rebuild kit with all Japanese-made parts, had the block bored, honed, cleaned, and had the cams and crank polished, as well as the block and heads surfaced. Every seal, belt, and hose was replaced. I torqued everything with a torque wrench, and referenced the FSM for anything I was unfamiliar with. That being said, I am new to Subies, so feel free to throw out anything you think might be relevant to finding/fixing the leak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilsonjacob8 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Also! ...Temps and oil pressure are both good so far, even with the leak. I have yet to see the temperature rise above 200*F. Oil pressure is roughly 70-80psi at idle when cold, 10-15 psi at idle when warm, and about 50-60psi warm at cruising speed. If I left anything out let me know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihscout54 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Everything sounds good make sure you arent getting odd pressure bubbles or foam in the radiator. Theres only 300 miles on it a tiny bit of moisture sludge in the pcv system would bug me but I wouldnt even think about pulling anything. You are likely planning on an oil change soon if its clean and coolant free then maybe just keep an eye on it. Its possible its just moisture. Ive personally never seen this happen but ive heard of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilsonjacob8 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 I just changed the oil (more to get rid of any remaining metal particles leftover from the first oil change/initial start-up). I plan on putting another tank of gas through it, and I'll definitely keep an eye on everything. I can confirm that there are no bubbles in the radiator, and there is no sign of any cross contamination of oil in the radiator or the overflow tank. I just don't know how much water it takes to make the "foam". It struck me as a red flag, so now I'm paranoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyeights Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I just finished a fresh rebuild on an EA82 SPFI last year. It's a great engine, smooth and quiet, makes good power and I like it. It also produces the same type of "muck" in the PCV tubing. It doesn't really seem to gather anywhere else on mine. I admit is a bit alarming on a fresh engine You say you are not adding any fluids correct? Perhaps some of it is just "the nature of the beast". Can you share any details and or pics on the Turbo Delete project? There is an EA82 PCV fix or update that the dealer put on. You can still find the blue "t" fitting on some of the wrecking yard cars. That's how you find the update parts, look for the "Blue" tee and grab all the PCV stuff if you didn't get the update. It probably won't help though... Edited January 22, 2015 by Crazyeights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilsonjacob8 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 That makes me feel a little better. I haven't had to add any fluids, and other than the transmission being old, tired, and leaky, the engine is completely dry on the outside as far as seepage goes. I think some of the foam might be because of the way I initially had the PCV hooked up. Until I was able to get the necessary couplers, I simply had all four crankcase vents (both valve covers, rear-top of block, and rear-passenger lower) teed together and hooked directly up to the PCV valve on the throttle body. In this configuration, there was no way for fresh air to enter the crankcase, only the vacuum from the PCV. I have yet to drive on it since I fixed it the other day, but now it is as it should be. The valve covers hook up to the plenum, post-MAF sensor, while the other two go into the PCV valve. With the above PCV correction, I hope to see reduced foam production in the PCV tubes due to the increased fresh air flow. However, if the foam doesn't lessen, I won't feel better until I figure out where it's coming from. ...As far as the turbo delete goes, it was pretty straight forward. I did as the other members suggested and bought the intake plenum, PCV hoses, and a y-pipe from a non-turbo model. I had to cut the y-pipe just below the flanges to the head since the subframe was interfering with the pipes where they elbow to the rear (the y-pipe was pulled from a car at pick n pull, and it is definitely custom, so I can't speak to how a stock one would've fit). Other than that, it was just down to plugging the turbo oil port on the head and bridging the water lines that would've fed and returned the turbo water. Everything else stayed the same. Fired right up after some timing belt adjustments due to me not reading the instructions properly (I chock it up to being primarily a Honda guy xD). Other than the issue brought up in this thread, I have yet to find any issues with the rebuild. The only thing I've noticed is that it's a bit gutless. I have the DR 4WD 5-spd tranny, and I'm running 195/60/15s on the Pugeot alloys, but it feels more gutless than I thought it would be. I can't tell if that's just what it is, or if something else (ignition timing, tuning, etc.) is sapping that little bit of peppiness. Given that I've never driven an N/A EA82 before, I have no baseline "power feel" to compare it to, since last I drove it it was turbo'd lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihscout54 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/25367-mayonaise-in-crankcase-where-is-water-coming-from/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilsonjacob8 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Interesting. I will drive on it and continue to monitor. Back to the issue of the zero-balls status in the engine department, anyone have any suggestions. Or does it truly just have no power whatsoever? The only thing I have to compare it to is my 1.5L civic that still felt like it had more power when I was running the same size tires on 15s. We're talking 4th, but mainly 5th, being useless for anything but maintaining speed on anything more than a slight incline. Is that about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Turbo delete and gutless due to low compression ratio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilsonjacob8 Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 standard pistons. Sorry, thought I included that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 No they are just gutless. Made to do 55mph cruising as that was the national standard then. Water....Sounds like moist PNW air to me. Although just to be sure you did replace the Orange, oval shaped O-ring between the case halves when they were apart? That O-ring can leak and be a Mo#%er F(&ker to track down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyeights Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I have a1988 DL Wagon It used to belong to a co-worker. This guy couldn't have been any worse about maintenance. His breakfast, left over petrified lunch bits, and half of every cup of coffee for the last 5 years were still in there chill'n I founds lots of frys and a rodent too. This car was heading for pick-n-pull when I grabbed it for parts. The engine had been leaking coolant for the last 40k and over heated every time to the point of grease smoking on the block. He would only replace one hose at a time as they blew. He wouldn't even stop and tow it in, It ran with little or no oil pressure and filthy brown oil for most of the time he owned it. He NEVER check the oil. The lifters hammered all the time. I had to put 3 or 4 quarts of oil in it every time it came in for service. The little check ball in the oil filter had been missing for who knows how long. I picked up a used pump for about $6.00 and all the other parts engine parts I had saved from other projects. I had just done the timing belt, idlers, water pump, etc for this guy the year before he killed the clutch and parked it, so that was covered too. I never dreamed I would own this thing someday while I was working on it I completely went through it and rebuilt the entire engine as a spare time project .I like to build engines. I took a few crummy cell phone pics of the internals. I did it right paying close attention to the tight end of the factory specs. It has about 5000 miles on it now. It's really starting to wake up. It was a little sluggish for about 3000 miles after the rebuild. It's one of my favorite daily drivers now, and I have a few choices. I haven't worked out the fuel economy yet but it's the highest one I own. The thing really scoots for what it is .I can certainly keep up with traffic, enough to make it fun. People ask me if I want to sell it all the time. These same people were asking me last year, "why are you wasting your time and money on that old pile of crap?" These little EA series engines will run at 4500+ rpm's in a plane all day long. You really have to drive these things to get the power out of them. Make sure it's running in closed loop with out any codes, use a fresh grounded (heated if possible) O2 sensor. Use a new or low mileage TPS and a working coolant temp sensor. ALL connectors must be clean and tight. Find a good MAF that doesn't have 250,000 miles on it and properly clean it. Check your fuel pressure, it may be low due to a weak high mileage pump. Go through every single detail and sew them up tight. Be detail oriented and you will be pleased every time. Try taking second gear out to about 3500 or 4000 before you shift. the same with 3rd.I also recommend running premium fuel and bumping the timing to 28 degrees. This seems to be the sweet spot with today's fuel and the SPFI. The 30 year old tuning specs are irrelevant at best now IMO. Fuels have changed dramatically in the last 30 years since these cars were new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilsonjacob8 Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 That was very insightful. Thank you for the detailed response! As I read this, I thought to myself how many of these things you've mentioned are probably exactly the things I've overlooked. The chassis had 216,000mi on it when I rebuilt the engine, and the contacts on everything with a plug show signs of corrosion, even if just a little. Perhaps I should invest a little more time in the finer details and exhibit a little patience. I will be getting the exhaust and tires/wheels sorted out, though, because they are obvious suspects. Again, Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 How do you get the timing that far advanced? At 20 degrees I'm fully advanced. Rotate the plug wires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Pull the disty and move the gear ahead one tooth over stock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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