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Help! 1999 Outback Phase ll Block, DOHC Heads


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15 replies to this topic

#1 steve2005

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 05:13 PM

okay, i have the 1999 outback with the phase ll block and the dohc heads. is this a better setup than the phase l with the dohc's? full blown phase ll's with the sohc's might develop an external coolant leak from what i've read here. what will the phase ll with the dohc's do if this should happen to me? would it be an external or internal leak? i'm confused about putting in the conditioner in this engine. i'm going to do it though. no leaks yet (119,000 miles) using distilled water and changing regularly. any advice will be appreciated here. steve2005

#2 fastwgn286

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 05:29 PM

how are you sure its a phase II motor when it has DOHC heads? im confused...:confused: :confused: :confused:

if you don't smell coolant burning on the cats, then you don't need the coolant additive. if so, then you need the additive. but i guess you still need to check for internal leaks?

it all depends on what headgaskets are in there. and, i have no clue given the description presented


and, my brain hurts now...

#3 steve2005

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 07:38 PM

how are you sure its a phase II motor when it has DOHC heads? im confused...:confused: :confused: :confused:

if you don't smell coolant burning on the cats, then you don't need the coolant additive. if so, then you need the additive. but i guess you still need to check for internal leaks?

it all depends on what headgaskets are in there. and, i have no clue given the description presented


and, my brain hurts now...


well i looked behind the power steering pump where it says japan and it has one ridge instead of two which according to the nasioc subaru forum is a phase ll engine block. i have no coolant loss now but i'm wondering if this would be an internal leaker or an external leaker (if it ever leaks.) it's my understanding that you only put the coolant conditioner in a phase ll engine with the sohc heads to stop external leaks. (some rare 1999's and all 2000's and beyond.) it's no good for the phase l engine blocks with the dohc heads. but what about the phase ll blocks with the dohc heads which were produced in 1999? i guess i'm in the twilight zone with this engine setup. wierd.

#4 fastwgn286

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 08:58 PM

well, my guess is that since it's a DOHC, and the 99 outbacks had the internal leaking hgs as well as all the other DOHC EJ25s, i would suggest that you keep an eye out for anything odd floating in your coolant overflow tank.

according to nasioc (couldn't find much on the block info here) the 98 and 99 DOHCs had the phase II block. but, from my fuzzy knowledge, subaru still used the same hgs through that generation of legacies. they didn't update the design of the gasket until 2000-ish, long after the DOHC was replaced by the SOHC.

so yeah, no additive, check the overflow tank and the temp gauge regularly...

and of course, knock on wood, say prayer, salt around parking space, garlic clove in glove box, etc. etc.

#5 steve2005

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 09:49 PM

well, my guess is that since it's a DOHC, and the 99 outbacks had the internal leaking hgs as well as all the other DOHC EJ25s, i would suggest that you keep an eye out for anything odd floating in your coolant overflow tank.

according to nasioc (couldn't find much on the block info here) the 98 and 99 DOHCs had the phase II block. but, from my fuzzy knowledge, subaru still used the same hgs through that generation of legacies. they didn't update the design of the gasket until 2000-ish, long after the DOHC was replaced by the SOHC.

so yeah, no additive, check the overflow tank and the temp gauge regularly...

and of course, knock on wood, say prayer, salt around parking space, garlic clove in glove box, etc. etc.


well thanks for the info! i guess you answered my question! it's all in the head gasket and not the phase block that's under them. it's the sohc heads that will leak externally if they ever leak at all and all of them are phase ll blocks. it doesn't matter if it's the phase l or the phase ll block for the dohc heads. if they ever leak it will probably be an internal leak regardless of which block is under them. i hope i finally got this right. i ordered the conditioner but i will think more on this before i put it in if i even do now. i like the garlic idea. might come in handy camping sometime! thanks!

#6 Storm

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 07:05 AM

shhhh....Most of nasioc still thinks it's the heads and not the gaskets! :brow: I find more sets of good usable heads that way!:headbang:

well thanks for the info! i guess you answered my question! it's all in the head gasket and not the phase block that's under them. it's the sohc heads that will leak externally if they ever leak at all and all of them are phase ll blocks. it doesn't matter if it's the phase l or the phase ll block for the dohc heads. if they ever leak it will probably be an internal leak regardless of which block is under them. i hope i finally got this right. i ordered the conditioner but i will think more on this before i put it in if i even do now. i like the garlic idea. might come in handy camping sometime! thanks!

Jay

#7 blitz

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:20 AM

shhhh....Most of nasioc still thinks it's the heads and not the gaskets! :brow: I find more sets of good usable heads that way!:headbang:

Jay

There's an entire 3rd group putting forth the premise that the problem is merely just an issue with the gaskets themselves ...uh, the spin department at SOA (y'know, the same department that re-wrote the industry standard repair proceedure for properly dealing with these supposedly bad head gaskets as "Add Stop-Leak". :rolleyes:

**** ******!

#8 steve2005

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 10:47 AM

but do the later 1999 phase ll blocks have an improved gasket on the dohc heads or is it the same gasket used on all the dohc phase l blocks. i hope someone knows. i might keep this outback if i can find out for sure if this is the case. i love this car otherwise but this headgasket thing is bumming me out. thanks you guys for the info on this! steve2005

#9 cookie

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 04:18 PM

If you ever leak it will be external. Replacement of the gasket should be a permanent fix. Sorry, you have the poor gasket design.
Put a few bucks by for replacement if needed, and if you never need it throw a good party.

#10 970subaru

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 04:41 PM

DOHC heads on a phase II block will have some nice high compression. the SOHC piston dish and DOHC combustion chamber are smaller.:headbang:

#11 steve2005

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 05:42 PM

If you ever leak it will be external. Replacement of the gasket should be a permanent fix. Sorry, you have the poor gasket design.
Put a few bucks by for replacement if needed, and if you never need it throw a good party.


so do you think i should start using the coolant conditioner for this engine if it would be an external leaker if a leak should happen? glad about the external leak part of this puzzle. so the phase ll blocks always leak externally no matter what heads eh? i'm starting to feel better about this now. thanks!

#12 steve2005

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 05:47 PM

DOHC heads on a phase II block will have some nice high compression. the SOHC piston dish and DOHC combustion chamber are smaller.:headbang:


humm--wonder if you should use higher octane gas in the phase ll dohc's? i'm using 86 octane but i'm in the mountains. maybe 87 octane? has never pinged on me anywhere.

#13 cookie

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 05:50 PM

I'm sorry, I meant internal. I have brain damage today. The conditioner is unlikely to do much for your engine.

#14 steve2005

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 06:04 PM

I'm sorry, I meant internal. I have brain damage today. The conditioner is unlikely to do much for your engine.


okay, i can deal with this i guess. i did think only the sohc heads were the external leakers but i thought maybe the phase ll blocks starting in 1999 might have a somewhat improved gasket i think i read somewhere? will not use the conditioner and drive sensibly. i guess the check valve adjustment is the next big thing to do. a reputable mechanic told me if the engine idles smooth your solid lifter valves are okay. if it idles rough check the adjustment on them. mine idles smooth. humm anyway--thanks for your input!

#15 nipper

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 08:19 PM

okay, i can deal with this i guess. i did think only the sohc heads were the external leakers but i thought maybe the phase ll blocks starting in 1999 might have a somewhat improved gasket i think i read somewhere? will not use the conditioner and drive sensibly. i guess the check valve adjustment is the next big thing to do. a reputable mechanic told me if the engine idles smooth your solid lifter valves are okay. if it idles rough check the adjustment on them. mine idles smooth. humm anyway--thanks for your input!


drive sensibly? what is this "drive sensibly" of which you speak? thats no fun.:grin:
Seriously just watch the temp gauage everyso often and youll be fine, beating the crap out of it drive sensibly if its going to go, its going to go. Its not a performance issues, its an erosion issue of the HG and overestimating the sealing force required in a thin spot of the gasket. It's only about 15% of the engines and the longer time goes by, the less of these bad HG there are of none repaired HG's

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#16 steve2005

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 11:15 PM

drive sensibly? what is this "drive sensibly" of which you speak? thats no fun.:grin:
Seriously just watch the temp gauage everyso often and youll be fine, beating the crap out of it drive sensibly if its going to go, its going to go. Its not a performance issues, its an erosion issue of the HG and overestimating the sealing force required in a thin spot of the gasket. It's only about 15% of the engines and the longer time goes by, the less of these bad HG there are of none repaired HG's

nipper


okay--temp has always been stable even with the ac on on hot days. i might even jam the gas pedal to the floor a little more often now . maybe i've got a non-possesed engine blessed by the subaru gods. i am going to carry garlic in the glovebox and quit worrying about this. thanks! :burnout:




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