jim martin Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 I need a new car & would prob. get an Outback wagon. However, I see that the Outback will be radically changed for '05. It will be bigger I hear? Anything else? It would be nice if it is a little bigger, but of course that prob. means more $$$ too. I am wondering if anybody knows when the '05s will be out, and what the changes will be. I'd hate to spend $$$ on an 04 if the model will change. If the changes are not for the better, maybe I need to get an '04. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Just wait 8-10 months and hope for a Legacy STi! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMc-DE Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 I have seen photos on the internet of the 2005 Outback. Very nice, however not what I would want so I went ahead and bought the 2004. The 2005 has a more refined style versus 2004 sport-utility style. I already had the roof rack accessories from my 1998 Outback that fit my 2004. From the looks of the 2005 I did not think the rack accessories would fit it so it made getting the 2004 a bit easier. The Subaru dealer told me that the 2005 wiill be more expensive and that they would be probably offering great deals on the 2004 Outbacks as they get closer to the May/June/July timeframe when they will get the 2005 Outbacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ABAJA Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Pimp! Did you sleep in it the first night??? What color?...did they give you a deal?....options? NOTHING beats a new car....nothing! Josh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ABAJA Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Except a new car that you don't have to pay for!!!!!! Josh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMc-DE Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Sorry to say that I did not sleep in it. I like it though. It's a base model Outback, manual tranny, light green color, tan interior. Drives about the same as the 1998. Subaru claims that there are mechanical improvements but I cannot really notice them yet in the driveability. The 2004 interior is nicer than the 1998. Radio not so hot. I think 1998 radio sounds better. Also, not a big deal but...floor mats in the 2004 are kind of cheesy looking...they don't even match the interior that well. It'ls like they were an afterthought using some carpet that Subaru got a good deal on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMc-DE Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 I guess I got a decent deal. Got it at dealer invoice + $300 and 0% financing. I probably could have done better but I was not a hardnosed negotiator. He met my bottom line number that I had in-mind so I went with it. Pretty simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB_Dad Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 The new Outback is increasingly redundant with its Legacy kin also coming at the same time. However, the Outback rides smoother and sits a little higher. Visual differences between '04 Outback and '05 Outback are pretty much limited to the heavier cladding around the bottom trim of the car. However, the new Outback has something the current ones don't, a retuned H6 engine that is roughly 40HP higher than the current H6's . DVD navigation is also a huge new feature (to me at least). More headroom, better materials used, increased fuel economy (just barely), lighter weight, etc, etc. The proto I saw in person also had a large single moonroof instead of the goofy and pointless dual roofs (why not have the roof open over you instead of the back seat? That's what a moonroof is for!!). I have a bad feeling the final Outback reverted to the dual though. Anyway, the new Outback seems to be a MUCH better vehicle. However, if you like the two-tone, stick with an '04. I DID see a black and dark grey two-tone '04 the other day that almost made me soil myself! Anyway, I think I may have carried on a little long here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alias20035 Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Originally posted by HB_Dad The new Outback is increasingly redundant with its Legacy kin also coming at the same time. However, the Outback rides smoother and sits a little higher. Visual differences between '04 Outback and '05 Outback are pretty much limited to the heavier cladding around the bottom trim of the car. However, the new Outback has something the current ones don't, a retuned H6 engine that is roughly 40HP higher than the current H6's . DVD navigation is also a huge new feature (to me at least). More headroom, better materials used, increased fuel economy (just barely), lighter weight, etc, etc. The proto I saw in person also had a large single moonroof instead of the goofy and pointless dual roofs (why not have the roof open over you instead of the back seat? That's what a moonroof is for!!). I have a bad feeling the final Outback reverted to the dual though. Anyway, the new Outback seems to be a MUCH better vehicle. However, if you like the two-tone, stick with an '04. I DID see a black and dark grey two-tone '04 the other day that almost made me soil myself! Anyway, I think I may have carried on a little long here... You've pretty much covered it... I have driven the forthcoming 2005 model and it is incredible how much better it is over the 00-04 generation. The moonroof is still double and the front one still pops up, but the front sunroof is now smaller and the rear one bigger. It is a substantially improved moonroof design. Fuel economy apparently jumps from 36 to 42 MPIG (imperial gallons) on the highway. All 05 models will be ULEV or SULEV as well The new exhaust note due to the crossed headers is awesome, although it will be hard to identify a Subaru by its sound when blindfolded. The sportshift 5EAT has virtually no lag in fully automatic mode, and when in manual mode the safetys are not overly obtrusive (since I had the engine about 300 RPM past red line). Subaru design the 00-04 models to match Toyota/Honda and for the most part succeeded. The 05 model (04 everywhere else in the world) set its sights on BMW, and from my perspective it beats it in almost everyway. While the new Legacy/Outback will not outperform a BMW 3 or 5 series I am absolutely positive the the STi Legacy will come close to matching a BMW 540, which is quite a feat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Alias Any recent pics available on the legacy 05? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ABAJA Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 I was dying for pics, so I went to yahoo and typed something like "05 Legacy"! Good looking car! How in the world did you get to drive it....are they selling them in Canada already? Josh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim martin Posted November 25, 2003 Author Share Posted November 25, 2003 So, is the new Outback more "refined" and less "sport utility" like? Will I want to take it off road or load it up with camping gear, etc? Or has it gone fancy? Has the Forrester essentially replaced the Outback as we know it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMc-DE Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 In response to Jim Martin's post... It seems that others in this forum have a better handle on the 2005 Outback. I based my opinion solely on the following photos and did not take into consideration any mechanical upgrades: http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2003_fms_outback/ http://www.velocityjrnl.com/jrnl/2005/vmd10478ml.html http://www.jipemania.com/newsd/0307/Subaru%20Outback%202005.htm To me, it does not look as "tough" albeit it does look more "refined". Refined is good but I already have a luxury sport sedan for that. I wanted my Outback to be a camping, skiiing, put-my-bike-on-top, go-to-Home-Depot-to-buy-bags-of-mulch, type of car. I do take care of it and don't use it like you see in the Nissan Xterra commercials where it is sitting on top of a cliff with ropes tied to it and all muddy, but that's just me taking care of my stuff in-general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benebob Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 As a disappointed 03 Legacy GT owner I say forget the Legacy and get a Forester or Impreza. If Subie can't have exceptional quality on a line that hasn't had a major redesign in 8 years I would highly doubt that a brand new redesigned 05 model would even come close in the quality aspect. There is more orange peel on our Legacy then a 86 Chevy full size van, its been back to a dealer now 6 times (soon to be 7) for a bad manual tranny, a non working cd player and various other things. I never had any trouble on a Japanese made model so unless there is an 05 version made in Japan I'd shy away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ABAJA Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by benebob I never had any trouble on a Japanese made model so unless there is an 05 version made in Japan I'd shy away. Is the GT made in Japan??? I thought they were made in Lafayette. I may be wrong! I know my Legacy has not bean what my Impreza was....as far as a quality built ride! Josh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subeman90 Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 No....benebob is saying that he thinks that the Jap made Subarus are better....well if anyone wants my .02 then I agree with him too. My OB is a US car and my wife's forester is a Jap made vehicle. Her forester has much better build quality than my OB and quite honestly I think her forester drives like a subaru...and my OB (god help me and don't strike me down for saying this) seems more like a Honda everytime I drive it. My OB was in the shop the other day and I had a 93 Legacy 2wd as a loaner...and as soon as I got in it I looked at my wife and said "now these were the glory days of the Legacy" but once again.....just my $.02 Long live the 90-94's Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alias20035 Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 1990-1994 Canadian Subaru's were all made in Gunma Japan (as far as I know) and they were exceptionally well built (mine was). 1995+ Canadian Legacy/Outbacks are built in Lafayette. All Impreza's and Foresters are built at Gunma, Japan. The Japanese auto plant workers definitely produce a better product than those at SIA in Lafayette, but the difference in not all that signifincant since Subaru has designed the car in such a fashion that it is difficult to make errors during assembly. The only major quality difference that I have noted between Japan and US made cars is related to US sourced components, such as the suspension components that have been recalled on my 01 Outback three times now. Canada will get the 05 Legacy/Outback shortly after the US does, as the Canadian models have some differences and have to be produced in a large batch at SIA. The 05 Subaru Outback H6 I drove was on its way to a Northern Ontario testing facility, my guess is that it was a European left hand drive model with the US market engine and emmisions controls, but US and Euro emmisions are now very close. It appeared to be final product, other than it had a bunch of data logger cables coming out of the ashtray area. Canada has major automotive winter testing facilities in Timmins, Ontario, somewhere in Northern Québec (Témiscaming or Jonquiere?) and Thompson, Manitoba. All of these locations experience arctic like climate conditions and are still relitively easy to get to over the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benebob Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Personally, I don't think poor fit and finish (my Brat with nearly 200k is still put together more precise) nor orange peel should be acceptable on a 10k car let alone a 26k. Subaru seems to want to go upscale with the new Legacy. It will be their downfall unless they get their act together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ABAJA Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Yes boys...............um hmmm!!!!!:wave: Josh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alias20035 Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by benebob Personally, I don't think poor fit and finish (my Brat with nearly 200k is still put together more precise) nor orange peel should be acceptable on a 10k car let alone a 26k. Subaru seems to want to go upscale with the new Legacy. It will be their downfall unless they get their act together. I am not sure why everyone is harping on the fit and finish of the Legacy, I find my Outback to be very well assembled.... at least as well if not better than my Gunma Japan manufactured 1985 GL wagon and 1993 Legacy wagon. That said the 2005 I drove had a fabulous interior, and the best fit and finish I have ever seen (I would say even better than my friends Lexus IS). Until I drove the 2005 I thought the Mazda 6 and RX8 had the nicest centre console layout out there, but my opinion has now changed. My only concern is that deployment of the passenger side airbag now requires a whole new dash cover, since there is no separate air bag panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB_Dad Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by alias20035 My only concern is that deployment of the passenger side airbag now requires a whole new dash cover, since there is no separate air bag panel. I think if your side airbags went off, you would have bigger fish to fry (how about a new side of the car?)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ABAJA Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Originally posted by alias20035 I am not sure why everyone is harping on the fit and finish of the Legacy I am stating the differences because I have owned an 02 Impreza AND an 03 Legacy!!...and on more than just fit and finish!! 3 Major differences right off the top of my head: 1) Annoying air leak when at highway speeds from driver door 2) A/C failure before 5,000 miles 3) Noticable engine ping/piston slap when cold....mild when warm None of this with my Impreza! That car was PIMP.....May it rest in peace!! Josh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benebob Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Did I mention the orange peel paint on mine??? It really isn't that noticable since the color of the body panels beside the bumper covers isn't quite the same. I'd be happy if it was built as good as a Jap. Subie then I wouldn't get irritated about my fellow Americans every time I wash the Legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alias20035 Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 The orange peel paint is not a Subaru issue, it is an enviromental one. 8-10 years ago car makers switched to more enviromentally friendly paints. There are massive class action lawsuits from DOW and PPG workers who have alarming levels of cancer from the chemicals used to make paints until about 10 years ago. Today's paints are softer and require a thicker coat of it, hence the slightly bumpy appearance of it. Also the newer paints don't work on plastics like the old stuff, so a different type of paint is used so forget about color matching plastic to metal, not even BMW can do it..... I am a little concerned about accidental air bag deployment. Hit a ditch or drop in the road and if the lower side of the bumper hits, the air bags go off. I have seen this happen many times, Subaru recalled a bunch of vehicles that had low tow hooks that were hitting speed bumps causing airbags to go off, but it still occurs. With the new dual stage airbags, anything over a 8 MPH collision will deploy the bags in low power inflation mode. The new dash may add over $1000 to accident repair claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WagonsOnly Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Alias, the fit and finish on a pre-production model should be top-notch, isn't that the point of prototypes? The car has already been in production everywhere else in the world, so hopefully with a couple more months of intensive prep work and worker retraining they'll get it right this time. I blame the quality issues on GM and the plant workers, most of whom used to assemble Isuzus. The fit and finish work they did was fine--for an Isuzu. Let's hope with the Legacy/OB we're not all sitting here talking about the quality that used to be, and never will again. If they don't get it right this time--after more than 10 years of making Soobs Stateside--I'm sticking with Foresters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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