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Cylinder heads????


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14 replies to this topic

#1 jbecker

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 11:36 PM

how do you know if you need just head gaskets or if your heads are cracked without taking it apart. I got a 87 gl with a ea82 turbo. Thanks for your help.

#2 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 11:40 PM

You don't.

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#3 Gravityman

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 04:41 AM

The simple answer to that question is you obviously have a problem and you have a leak somewhere. (I guess the HG, only if it is white smoke comeing from the exhaust, more to come on that reasoning) Pull the motor and take off the heads, at that point you can check for both cracked or blown. Both can be fixed. The HG would be the easiest, buy a new HG and head bolts.

The head can be either repaired or buy a new or used one. If it is cracked it will normally be between the intake and exhaust ports. In this case you could call around to machine shops and price someone that is capable in repairing cracked aluminum heads (it requires the heads to be cleaned, the valve seats removed, welding the damaged area, remachining the port and valve seat carrier, reinstallation of the valve seat.) I would imagine between $200-300 hopefully cheaper.

Ok now back to

(I guess the HG, only if it is white smoke comeing from the exhaust, more to come on that reasoning)

. The reason I suspect the HG is because, even if the head were to crack between the valves, the crack does not usually extend far enough down the port to reach the coolant passages. A blown HG is more common and a weaker link then the cylinder head. FYI... If you are spewing WHITE smoke you have a coolant leak. Grey is an oil leak which could be either your piston rings, HG, Head crack (rare) or your turbo gaskets (most likely suspect if you have an original unrebuilt turbo) have flown south and craped out on you.

I would try this step first if you have grey smoke coming from the exhaust, sorry for jumping around. For the turbo you can check this by removing the pipe between the turbo compressor exducer and your engines intake. stick your finger in the turbo and inspect the hose you just removed for oil residue. If there is any, your turbo is the problem. rebuild it if possible, I say just buy a bigger one. If this doesnt fix the problem then proceed with the engine. It is normal for a turbo with 20 years of wear and tear to be shot, it sucks but is normal.

I have done some deconstructive cylinder head research to see exactly how deep the cracks really go. Mind you, this is from an ER27 although it is identical to the EA82 head just minus one cylinder.
Posted Image


Notice "this" crack did not reach the coolant passage, although it is possible.
Posted Image

More on this thread for some information to your question.
http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=71766

Good Luck (GL) to you. I hope this helps you out a little. I may have left something out but it will give you some direction.

Scott

#4 jbecker

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 12:19 PM

Thank you so much gravity man

#5 Gloyale

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 01:48 PM

The head can be either repaired or buy a new or used one. If it is cracked it will normally be between the intake and exhaust ports. In this case you could call around to machine shops and price someone that is capable in repairing cracked aluminum heads (it requires the heads to be cleaned, the valve seats removed, welding the damaged area, remachining the port and valve seat carrier, reinstallation of the valve seat.) I would imagine between $200-300 hopefully cheaper.


The cracks between the valves 99% are not a problem. I would not bother trying to repair those cracks unless you have an unlimited budget. These are the cracks you really need. to worry aboutPosted Image

These cracks are common in the turbo heads, and WILL leak coolant directly into the exhaust. If the cracks are there and all the way through you will have smoking on start up and a consistent loss of coolant. These cracks can be welded up pretty easily by an experienced aluminum welder. I paid $60 to have a head welded recently.

Again, don't be surprised to find cracks between the valves of every cylinder, both heads. Those are, uhhh,.... normal? well common and known to not be an issue generally. There has even been a service bulletin from subaru about it.

#6 jbecker

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 02:26 PM

Thanks gloyale. Do the valves need to come out in order to see the cracks that you need to worry about. I got one of my heads off this morning and there are little cracks between the intake and exhaust valve on both cylinders,

#7 Gloyale

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 02:42 PM

no the valves do not need to come out.

Like I said, the BTV(between the valves) cracks are normal, and unless the are gnarly, they should not cause problems.

The photo I posted is the view looking into the exhaust port. Bottom side of the head, where the exhaust pipe bolts on. Look down inside, there is a wall that spans across the middle of the port. Examine the ends of that wall, where it curves out and blends into the port. That is where you are looking for cracks. Tiny, tiny hairlines, may not extend into the coolant jacket. But if they are bigger they are likely going to be leaking coolant. I'll try to post a pic of a disected one soon.

#8 Gravityman

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 03:27 PM

The cracks between the valves 99% are not a problem. I would not bother trying to repair those cracks unless you have an unlimited budget. These are the cracks you really need. to worry aboutPosted Image


This might sound retaded. because i am deployed I cant view this pic from photo bucket. Could someone copy it and post it in their picture album and then link it. I can view pics from our forum but PB is blocked. THanks!

#9 Gloyale

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 04:02 PM

This might sound retaded. because i am deployed I cant view this pic from photo bucket. Could someone copy it and post it in their picture album and then link it. I can view pics from our forum but PB is blocked. THanks!


I've got that picture in my album. But it is smaller than the one on PB. But got to my album and it's there.

#10 jbecker

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 04:13 PM

i looked into my exaust port and i found a small small hairline fracture along. So if coolant leaks through this crack and into my exaust is that where the white smoke is coming from, What should i do about this.
Thanks

#11 Gloyale

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 04:28 PM

If it was only smoking on start up for a while then probably the cracks are causing it. If you had thick consistent white smoke that continued and got worse the longer you run it, and rising temperatures, then you likely have a blown head gasket(have you pulled both heads?)

If you really want to have them fixed they can be welded. It may not be nessescary. These cracks don't always go deep enough to leak, and sometimes the crack turns away from the jacket and misses it entirely.

Can you post any pictures? And what are you're long term intentions for the car? That could affect what approach you need to take.

#12 jbecker

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 04:53 PM

If it was only smoking on start up for a while then probably the cracks are causing it. If you had thick consistent white smoke that continued and got worse the longer you run it, and rising temperatures, then you likely have a blown head gasket(have you pulled both heads?)

If you really want to have them fixed they can be welded. It may not be nessescary. These cracks don't always go deep enough to leak, and sometimes the crack turns away from the jacket and misses it entirely.

Can you post any pictures? And what are you're long term intentions for the car? That could affect what approach you need to take.


It only smoked when it was warming up. i am going to go pull the other head off now(i think this one is worse). i would like to get this motor rebuilt and running. And i have 4 of these turbo cars and i can smell coolant coming out the exhaust when they all start. I would like to fix these cars without buying new heads, because they are expensive and rare. I will see if i can post pics after i take this other head off.
thanks Jason

#13 Gloyale

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 07:00 PM

It only smoked when it was warming up. i am going to go pull the other head off now(i think this one is worse). i would like to get this motor rebuilt and running. And i have 4 of these turbo cars and i can smell coolant coming out the exhaust when they all start. I would like to fix these cars without buying new heads, because they are expensive and rare. I will see if i can post pics after i take this other head off.
thanks Jason


Sounds like you should invest in some aluminum welding equipment. Or Find a good welder experienced in welding alloy heads.

Personally, I've gotten alot of miles out of engines with this kind of crack just adding a little coolant every week. As long as it doesn't overheat, there's no real problem other than the smoke. I suppose if those cracks were big and dumping lots of coolant, it could affect the turbo, but it hasn't seemed to on mine.

#14 jbecker

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 07:35 PM

Sounds like you should invest in some aluminum welding equipment. Or Find a good welder experienced in welding alloy heads.

Personally, I've gotten alot of miles out of engines with this kind of crack just adding a little coolant every week. As long as it doesn't overheat, there's no real problem other than the smoke. I suppose if those cracks were big and dumping lots of coolant, it could affect the turbo, but it hasn't seemed to on mine.


well i really appreciate all of your help. my cars do overheat. one more question, I put a ea82t out of my loyale that ran perfect into my gl-10 and i put a new distrubitur on it as well. When it was all in it took forever to start i kept moving that distributor around and i got it running but it would not idle or when you drive it it would just bog down. So i thought that my timing was either off or had some vacuum hoses off(which i didnt) so i took it to a subaru mechanic and he took off the radiater cap after he had it running for a bout a minute and the radiater cap popped up about 2 feet. Then the guy told me that my heads were cracked. But i think it is in the timing or something cuz that motor was running great. I would like to get it fixed but im not sure what to do.
Thanks Jason

#15 Gravityman

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 03:59 AM

I've got that picture in my album. But it is smaller than the one on PB. But got to my album and it's there.

Thanks buddy!




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