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what rpm are you running at 60 in 5th?


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43 replies to this topic

#26 mellow65

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 08:40 PM

If you're looking for the lowest gear, you're looking for an SVX tranny. 3.545 final drive. At 60, it's about 1800-1900rpm. At 80, it's about 2700-2800rpm. Other than that, you can go to a 3.900 which is the final drive of some of the early Legacy 5MT's.



i'm looking for lowest (numerically higher) gear sets. after reading the list of tranny gear ratios, 97-99 legacy outbacks have the lowest 1st-5th gearing out there. not looking for freeway cruising, looking for higher revs in the rally car.

as it is right now, when i am done in 4th and shift to 5th, it's just wont go any faster. so i am hoping going from a .780 5th to a .871 will help me out. that and those trannys have a lower second then what i have right now

#27 EVOthis

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 04:40 AM

Evo, I only see this as a math and/or mechanical enigma. That's the only reason you've got me interested in it. It's also a challenge for reasonning.

Argument 1 (a fact): nobody else gets the speed rpm relationship that you get. With comparable engines and trans, people get around 1000 rpm more than you do at the same speed.
Hypotheses 1 : You're not really going 60 miles an hour.
Answer 1 : You've tested your speed and it's exact.
Hypotheses 2 : You've got a non standard trans and/or diffs.
Answer 2: You've got a standard trans and standard diffs.
Hypotheses 3: You're tach is off.
Answer 3: you've tested your tach and it's exact.
Final conclusion : Since you're speed and tach are right, since your trans and diffs are standard and since you register around 1000 rpms less than the rest of us at the same speed, your car is host to a miracle.:banana: :clap:

In all logic, I dont see another possible explanation.
I did'nt think a car forum would be, for me, the place for a life transforming spriritual experience but I must admit this is it. Where will all this lead me ? I dont know yet. Wish me luck.


well....i def. understand your reasoning.......this has been like this for the past 20k miles....i even hooked up a scan tool to watch the RPM's while i drove......the engine even sounds like its at the right RPM......but i still refuse to see that there is a problem here.....

#28 OB99W

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 06:39 AM

well....i def. understand your reasoning.......this has been like this for the past 20k miles....i even hooked up a scan tool to watch the RPM's while i drove......the engine even sounds like its at the right RPM......but i still refuse to see that there is a problem here.....

The only two simple (non-miraculous :) ) explanations are that either the tach is non-linear or the speedo is. Since you've verified the tach's accuracy with other instruments, that leaves the speedo. You said "i went by a speed sensor for the cops the other day and i regestered perfectly.....25 in a 25", but that doesn't prove indicated 60 MPH is accurate.

If there's a stretch of highway in your area that has mile markers and is relatively free of traffic sometime during a day, you can verify the speedo. Doing a constant 60 MPH, measure the time between mile markers; it should be exactly one minute from marker to marker. If you can hold 60 over several miles, the accuracy will be better. (For safety, this should be done with a second person in the car doing the timing.) Any discrepancy from one minute per mile will indicate speedo error.

#29 johnceggleston

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 06:41 AM

well....i def. understand your reasoning.......this has been like this for the past 20k miles....i even hooked up a scan tool to watch the RPM's while i drove......the engine even sounds like its at the right RPM......but i still refuse to see that there is a problem here.....


if the mechanical eror is any where except your tach head, the scan tool will read the same as the tach. both wil be receiving the same information from the sensor.

what kind of gas mileage do you get.? what kind of driving do you do?

#30 OB99W

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 06:52 AM

if the mechanical eror is any where except your tach head, the scan tool will read the same as the tach. both wil be receiving the same information from the sensor.[...]

Good point John, although from post #12 in this thread, it appears that ignition pulse pickup was directly used to verify the tach.

#31 edrach

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 08:55 AM

yup.....checked it on a few different roads...and how i got up to speed.....at 60 mph in 5th gear... im crusing at 1600 RPM...than at 80 mph...im at like 3500-3800 RPM

Something is definitely wrong here: for a 33% increase in speed (60 to 80) you see about a 130% increase in RPM in the same gear....something doesn't compute here. My bet is that the 1600 RPM at 60 is incorrect.

#32 edrach

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 09:03 AM

i have a couple legacys and was wondering what you are running rpm wise at 60. i have a 96 2.2 outback that runs 3000 and one in my 90 legacy out of a 02-03 rs that runs 2500 at 60.

i need to find the lowest geared 5 speed out there. the rs tranny isn't working in my rally car, it's to high geared. 5th is just worthless on stage.

also if anyone gets bored what speed are you doing in each gear at 3000 rpm.

Check out the transmission ratios in the USRM (http://www.northursa...trannychart.pdf) to select which gearbox you might want. Physically most of the EJ22 boxes are interchangeable and the biggest difference you will see would be going from a 3.9 to a 4.1 rear.....but even that is not very significant.

#33 edrach

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 09:06 AM

Naw, it doesn't work like that, speed increase isn't a direct relation to engine rpm.
Will-

Speed increase IS a direct relation to engine rpm if you are in the same gear for both measurements.

#34 edrach

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 09:12 AM

i'm looking for lowest (numerically higher) gear sets. after reading the list of tranny gear ratios, 97-99 legacy have the lowest 1st-5th gearing out there. not looking for freeway cruising, looking for higher revs in the rally car.

as it is right now, when i am done in 4th and shift to 5th, it's just wont go any faster. so i am hoping going from a .780 5th to a .871 will help me out. that and those trannys have a lower second then what i have right now

If you're looking for higher revs in the rally car for a given speed, go with a tranny with a a 4.11 rear and matching rear diff. Also, go with a smaller diameter tire. The advantage of both of these changes is more acceleration which is what you want in your rally car. There are a number of potential donor sets among the Imprezas and Legacies that will get you there.

#35 EVOthis

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 09:57 AM

is there any way you can tell if the transmissions are different if i get you the number off the old and the new transmissions?....again if there is a problem here i dont see it because isnt running at a lower engine RPM better for the engine anyway.....

#36 lostinthe202

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 11:02 AM

Speed increase IS a direct relation to engine rpm if you are in the same gear for both measurements.



Yes, I thought it wasn't a direct relation, but I saw last night on the drive home that I was wrong and corrected myself earlier in the post.

#37 mellow65

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 11:02 AM

Check out the transmission ratios in the USRM (http://www.northursa...trannychart.pdf) to select which gearbox you might want. Physically most of the EJ22 boxes are interchangeable and the biggest difference you will see would be going from a 3.9 to a 4.1 rear.....but even that is not very significant.



i have been reading that, and the 97-99 outback has the 4.11 (which I have right now) and the best (that i can see) gear sets in them. pretty much 1st 3rd and 4th are the same, but 2nd and 5th are lower then what i have right now. and i know that it's not big numbers, but anything will help.

#38 edrach

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 01:36 PM

is there any way you can tell if the transmissions are different if i get you the number off the old and the new transmissions?....again if there is a problem here i dont see it because isnt running at a lower engine RPM better for the engine anyway.....

My suspicion is you have a funky rpm sensor since both the tach and scan tool rpm read the same. Only way to tell is to use an external tach measuring rpm off the harmonic balancer.

As to the difference in transmissions check the table on transmissions in the USRM (link posted earlier).

#39 EVOthis

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 02:05 PM

thanks for your input guys.....i still refuse to believe there is a problem with my car....but i cant say i havent learned anything....:)

#40 mellow65

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 02:16 PM

As to the difference in transmissions check the table on transmissions in the USRM (link posted earlier).


i have the chart from a long time ago, and that's what i was saying a 97-99 legacy outback 5 speed is the best. so i am on a search for one.

#41 Spiffy

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 02:19 PM

mine isn't a Leggy, so this probably won't help, but...

I've got about 2600 rpm at 60mph in the '00 Fozzy... 2.5 with 5mt...


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#42 johnceggleston

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 02:42 PM

i'm looking for lowest (numerically higher) gear sets. not looking for freeway cruising, looking for higher revs in the rally car.


i'm not completely sure what you are trying to accomplish, but smaller tires will give you more power. of course in an off road? situation, smaller tires may not be what you want.

#43 edrach

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 03:47 PM

i'm not completely sure what you are trying to accomplish, but smaller tires will give you more power. of course in an off road? situation, smaller tires may not be what you want.

In a stage rally environment, being able to accelerate quickly out of the many corners and get up to speed is a plus. A numerically higher rear end and smaller tires (within reason) will help accomplish that.

#44 mellow65

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 03:49 PM

i'm not completely sure what you are trying to accomplish, but smaller tires will give you more power. of course in an off road? situation, smaller tires may not be what you want.


i am trying to find the lowest gear set, 1st-5th, available to buy that came in a normal subaru.

and smaller tires aren't an option.




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