subaru1988

I have the battery on the charger, so I'll see what that does. I also cleaned the grounds and stuck the wire that was on the radiator on the water pipe ground so it too is grounded. I didn't have the water pipe on yesterday, I grounded it right to the bolt on the block. I also checked the fuel pump connector just because, and it was connected. I thought maybe it worked loose getting unloaded after the tow. I'll take a look at another fuse I found in a search here yesterday. After all this, I'll try a teaspoon or whatever of gas down the bore when my battery is charged. I turned the engine by hand again, and the alignment marks are basically like the pics I posted yesterday. It turns fine, no struggles, and the distributor rotor turns fine too. It really has no wiggle side to side, and the screw IS in. The rotor moves the instant I turn the crank. I see from doing a search that it's not always a "dead nuts on" proposition with the marks. To me, my marks look OK- one's up, one's down, mark in the middle of the valve timing marks.

My battery shows about the middle of the gauge on the charger when on trickle for just a few seconds, so I'll give it some juice at 5 amps when I can monitor what it's doing. I got about 12.1 or a little over on a volt meter. Is it safe to assume I can just take the boot off the throttle body and pour a little gasoline down the throat like a carb (which I'm way more familiar with )? There could be a little parallax error in my pics, but either way, they don't look a "tooth off" or anything to me..but this my first time doing an EA82 timing belt, so there's that. Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.

Well, I had some free time today and the weather is cooperating, so I put the belts on. I had to work with the LH belt a little, and it's as dead on to 12:00 as I could get it- maybe 2 mm off, if that? RH belt was much easier, of course. One mark is at 12:00, one is at 6:00 on each full revolution with the housing mark lining up with the center mark on the flywheel. I tensioned the belts with a tool I made from a electrical box cover and some 1/4 inch bolts. I torqued the center bolt down on my "tool" to 50 lb ft. so it wouldn't release with my torque wrench, and it worked. Too bad I busted my distributor cap in the process, though. I took it off and laid it on the hoses just to see the rotor turn, and damned if it didn't fall toward the rotor, get wedged between it and something else, and it put a huge crack in the stupid cap when I was turning the motor by hand! I don't think that would hurt the distributor...the cap is a lot less sturdy? EDIT- By a stroke of luck, I found a cap locally. Took each one of the old wires off, put them on the new cap. I thought I would do the "10 second run" for the belts without the water pump and alternator, and it's not starting. I'll post pics of where my holes/notches/flywheel marks are. I checked the firing order on the cap, and it's fine. I also looked at a few fuses that I thought the most logical, and those were OK. I'll try charging my battery tomorrow. When it conked out on me, I did try cranking it quite a bit, plus I used the starter to move the car off the road. There was also a little ground wire hooked up to the radiator that I didn't connect anywhere; I'll find a spot for that. Hopefully, it's something easy. Pic order- Driver Side, Passenger Side, Flywheel Marks Thanks!

Not sure what you meant by "bolt it in the opposite direction", but I get what you're saying about loosening the slide bolt and it pops into place. What I did was I used the top body of the water pump ( I tightened the bolts @ 7lbs, BTW) for a little leverage for my hands, pushed up with one hand and tightened the ratchet/socket I left hanging on the slot bolt with the other when I had it almost to the end of the slot. I really didn't want to pry on anything. Kind of goofy but it worked, and it looks like I have the clearance. I wonder if Kent Moore struck it rich with all of these "special tools" that the FSM and Haynes mention? I can see the flywheel stopper, but the other tools seem like luxuries? Anyway.. I have the crank pulley on and the mark on the LH side dead on, so I'm leaving the pulley on. I now can't really see the belt going into the oil pump sprocket ridges, but I guess I have to trust it is. I've been curious if anyone knows the torque for the pitch stopper bolts? I found 35/40 lb. ft. for newer Subarus. Does that sound right for an '88? That's one of those missing parts from the FSM that's online. Again, all the tips in this thread are much appreciated.

Quick update..I'm almost there. The mail order parts game is really great for saving money on these cars, not so much for saving time if there are order snafus, slow shipments, or crappy weather. In the meantime, I took the time to clean out all the bolt holes that I've used so I could thread by hand; it was worth the time, IMHO. The water pump holes were packed with a lot of RTV. I just couldn't see taking the time to do this job without cleaning it all up, including the much hated covers . I also flushed out the engine. Anyway, all I have left is to somehow raise the DRIVER side tensioner without that "special tool" to so I can get the belt on on that side. It seems like the PASSENGER tensioner is a piece of cake, so belt on that side too ASAP. I sure appreciate all the help. The FSM is great and all, but the tips I've received in this thread made a huge difference.

Yea, my passenger belt was in OK shape despite the fact that the pulley and belt wore a groove in the cover. Maybe that was before since this time the belts only lasted about 35K. It'll be one of my new spares. Believe me...I hear you guys about the covers. They've easily been the hardest (most time consuming) part of the job only in that that they needed to be REALLY cleaned out. I also had to work them with a Dremel to get the clearance back from them being warped. The pulley clears it fine now, so does the idler, and so should the belts. The shop who did the job last time more than likely cleaned nothing, and they put the covers on too damn tight. I was lucky nothing broke. The FSM says 3 pounds, not 10 pounds- the cover bolts were literally on tighter than the water pump bolts. I wouldn't mind leaving them off, but this car does winter duty with splashback from road salt, mag chloride, and all that garbage. I just don't know how the bearings and seals would hold up to all that corrosive stuff, not to mention the snow and water getting all over the belts and tensioners. I was lucky that I found an actual Kent Moore flywheel stopper to use. It worked GREAT, so taking the crank pulley off was nowhere near the worst part of the job, and it has me leaning to running without the front covers for a few weeks to make sure there isn't any funny business going on. I did the cam seals a few days ago, which was not bad at all. It looks to me they might have been done quite some time ago, because there were a few small scratches on the seal metal as if they'd been taken out. I used a screwdriver covered with duct tape to avoid that, and I saw the marks on the old seal. I used a 2.5 inch piece of PVC pipe to get the seals flush with the surrounding metal, and it worked nice. Looking to get out of a cold front here so I can flush out the coolant in the block the best I can, put the water pump, tensioners, and belts on so I can run it for 10 seconds or so to see where I'm at. Nice part is aside from the crank pulley and idler, I've taken everything apart with a 1/4 inch ratchet! Lots of room to work, too. Great pointers in this thread, I'm sure grateful for it.

Thanks.. Miles Fox's video shows him taking the seal out of the engine and replacing the actual seal on the engine over the cam. That's great if you have the engine out, but I don't think I can get enough hammer swing to "press" it in properly IN the car. Glad I asked first about using the bolts to pull the seal over the cam!

So after a shipping snafu put me behind, I finally received my cam seals. Quick question..Can the cam seals (not o-rings, obviously) be installed in the housing OFF the car? It seems to me like it would be easier to get them level with the surrounding metal off the car, and then use the bolts to draw the seal over the cam snout after tapping on the housing itself to get it started? Luckily, it just a matter of putting it all back together now. I know a lot of posters here don't use the covers, but I think I'll be putting mine back on. They are in OK shape, and I only had a few bolts that gave me any trouble, and I can use ZIP ties on that stuff. In the winter with all the mag chloride/salt/rocks and stuff on the roads, I just don't think I want to risk it. Thanks for all the tips.

Replacing a water pump every 15K seems odd to me. I mean, we have cars today that have oil change intervals at 10K. That's like doing a water pump every other oil change, AND you throw in the fact that the belts should last 40K? So that's two water pumps worth? I must be lucky, because I think my car is only on its 3rd water pump at 258K. I know one was done "because we're already in there for all this other stuff", which I understand to a point, but according to an old receipt I found, they weren't always $30 either. They did that, but I'm fairly confident I'm running the original cam seals. So much for "we're already in there" always being to the customer's benefit. After I swap out the cam seals, it'll be going back together. Two things I may also do "while I'm in there" are replace the dipstick tube o-ring and the o-ring on the radiator fan sensor. I sure am glad all these parts are cheap on the 'net, because this job would have been WAY more expensive parts wise locally. Now that I'm 60% through the job, I think the $350 paid last time for JUST a timing belt change with no tensioners or seals at all was a little much.

After waiting for my water pump and a few other parts, including a cheap tool that worked awesome for the sprockets (link below), I took the beltless sprocket off today to check the cam seal. I was hoping it was leak free like the passenger side, but it has signs of leakage, so I'll be going ahead and doing the seals and O-rings on both sides with the FelPro kit. The FSM shows a picture of the "pin" in the cam pointing to 12:00 (lined up with the head/valve cover) when you take the housing out. Is that what you guys do? Coat both with oil, except outside of seal, when installing, right? I'm hoping those bolts aren't TIGHT. I bought an Aisin water pump and it looks like nice quality and the hub height is right. Frankly, the gasket looks like the Subaru OEM gasket, so I don't think I'll use sealer on it, as the information paper with the pump specifically says not to. My mounting surface is in nice shape anyway. Anyway, here is the tool. Yes, you can easily make a version of the Y shaped tool. I made a sprocket turner with a piece of plastic pipe drilled through and 1/4 bolts. It worked great, but for $10 to hold the sprocket to take the bolts off, put them on, and maybe even take the slack out of the belts, how can you go wrong.. The smaller pins are practically an exact fit. I can probably use this for other stuff too. Sure, it kind of looks crude but feels like decent quality IMHO. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HFFR9RR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Thanks for all the tips!

Here's a mind bender..What do you do with clicking/somewhat noisy on turns aftermarket axles that have lasted nearly 100K and for the first 90K worked as good as OEM ?

You guys make some good points. The passenger belt I have is OK for in a pinch, and I just might get a driver's side for a spare. My tensioners could probably be reused, but one is not so great, the other is not bad, and as I've said, I'm considering reusing the idler pulley. It's NOT a Subaru original. It has no real play, spins with some tension, and no noise. In other words at the very least, I'll have spare belts and parts. All that said, I WILL be replacing the tensioners with the belts. I hear you on those cover inserts. I removed two of them after prying the case off. Since I live in snow country, I'm leaning toward putting the covers back on. I'll look for some neoprene screw washers to replace the ones that broke, or I've also thought about zip ties and carrying wire cutters, too . I do have to admit that the access is great and the checks ARE pretty clever. I know one thing. These cars are TOUGH, if like you said, you take reasonable care topping off the oil and keep them from overheating. Some people would balk at doing this sort of work on a car with 258K miles, many of those highway miles, but my plugs look great, the car still gets 30+ mpg, so why the heck not.

Ok...Honestly, I had zero oil on the cam housing to clean up. I really think the source of my problems was two things. First, the water pump was basically hanging on with loose bolts and the gasket. I put no effort whatsoever in taking those bolts off. Second, I think the earlier post about the belts rubbing on the back cover and putting goo all over the place was a problem. If you combine that with the coolant, that's the "leak" out of the timing cover. As for the idler pulley, I feel kind of stupid. I wrapped the pulley shank in a rag, put it in a vise, and the bolt came right off. It looked like maybe there was a little sealer or something on it. I just didn't think hard enough to realize it was a bolt with a partly smooth shank. It makes sense because it's in a bearing! DUH.. I'll keep buying only the bearings in mind. Mine seems pretty decent, FWIW. Thanks for posting that. I'll use those torque values as my guide. Honestly, it took much more effort to take the fan pulley off the pump, and those bolts are supposed to be at 7, I think. This is a very different car than what I'm used to. All these pulleys and stuff makes it seem like giant watch sometimes..Makes you wonder more if somethings going to get screwed up.

Yea, I've looked in the FSM and there's nothing about torquing those bolts. I'll have to check around some more..My guess would be 7-12 ft. lbs, maybe? I checked the exposed cam seal after letting it sit a day, and no leaks of any kind. I also sprayed PB Blaster on the crank snout yesterday, and whaddya know, the second sprocket came off. There is no oil leak there either. What I do see are little marks that look like someone used a socket extension to pound it in, so I believe it was replaced. I'm leaving those alone. No sense causing a problem. Quick question..I took the idler pulley off today because I'm basically waiting for parts at this point and doing little things here and there, and the bolt came with it. I'm guessing that's not how it's supposed to come off, so any tricks? I'm thinking cranking it down in a vise, but honestly this idler pulley isn't bad at all, and frankly, I wouldn't mind keeping it as a spare. I've even contemplated reusing it, but many here say don't do it. Thanks!

Thanks for the tips. My water pump lasted 70K miles, so it must have been doing ok. I thought the upper hole was actually a vent hole? Speaking of water pumps, my bolts for that were loose enough that I could have taken them off with a nut driver with very little effort. That seems almost TOO loose to me...? Good tip about the belt and "bending" the back cover, thanks. You have 480,000 miles on your '86!? Man..Is that on the original engine? I have 258,000 on mine, and I was just hoping to get another 25K out of the car. It's really been a great car, so it doesn't owe me anything, but wow..480,000! Dug in a little farther while waiting for parts..It's now down to cleaning and removing. I put the old PASS belt back on to get the cam sprocket off, made it tight, and I found that the cam sprocket IS hitting the back cover after I got it off. It has a 1/16 or so trail on the cover. I also found that there is no obvious leak from the cam seal. I'm thinking I might leave that since it seems OK instead of creating a possible problem. I tried to get the back crankshaft sprocket off, but it doesn't just come off like the front. I'm not seeing any real leakage there either, FWIW.

Thanks, guys. Glad to hear! I found that post while looking for info on gauging tension on the belts. I guess the poster found that his oil pump pulley had a lot of play, so he was taking it off to see why, and someone suggested that if he takes it off on the car, it will rotate counterclockwise and push the check ball off its seat because it's hard to hold still. The "belt guide" on the pump pulley makes sense. After seeing what's going on with my back covers rubbing a little because they're probably warped, my guess was it's to try to avoid the cover rubbing on the oil pump pulley? Like I said, the idler pulley is rubbing a little on the cover, and the PASS. cam sprocket probably rubs some when the engine heats up. If I keep the covers on, which I might because of weather considerations, I'll have to sand this stuff down. Speaking of belt tension, before I took the passenger belt off, I measured it, and it was a little over 1/2 inch of deflection at the mid point. I know that's not how you do it, but that seemed like too much from what I've read. That side's tensioner also has a slight wobble, and it seems to turn too easy, so it's toast. Just waiting for the big brown truck now..

Hey all, I'm now looking to clean everything up, put on the cam seals/O-rings, and get this all back together. One SNAFU I've seem to have found is that the back timing cover on the PASS side is a little warped and is too close to the cam sprocket for my taste. On the DRIVER side, the back cover rubs the idler pulley a little. I might have to modify this (ie. SAND it down for clearance) some if I keep the covers on. I haven't decided on that yet- I live in snow country. Anyway, Step-a-Toe, here's the pic of the silver washer behind the oil pump pulley. Speaking of that, While looking at that washer to see what it was, I moved that oil pump pulley a little counter clockwise, and of course clock wise to get a better look. Turning the pump a little clockwise by hand wouldn't screw up the oil pump up, would it?! I read in another post about removing the pulley fouls up a check ball or something if you turn it the wrong way? First time I heard of this..Seems odd to me because if you are moving the engine to change belts that are still on and the whole shebang moves counter clockwise when loosening the crank pulley bolt and it slips, it moves that way? Anyway, thanks for the great help so far..

Quick update...I'm pretty much at the point of putting this all back together with the parts I get. I think the water pump was actually the source of my leak, not the radiator pipe. It was either coming from the weep hole or slowly from around the gasket itself. BTW- the water pump bolts don't need thread sealer, do they? Mine seem to have some goo in the threads. I took off the water pump for peace of mind to further isolate the leak. I'm pretty sure it's not dripping from the head gasket, but I had that issue on another car, and I'm replacing the water pump so why not. Quick question about the oil pump sprocket. In the process of cleaning all of this up, I saw a silver shim or washer? behind the sprocket. The sprocket looks great and moves fine with just a little tension, but this washer/shim behind it also can spin with the sprocket or just stay put. Kind of a different oil pump design than what I'm used to, so I thought I'd ask what it is. I didn't see anything about it in the FSM that's online, so I guess it's not that consequential. My WAG is that it's just there to make sure there's always space between the sprocket and cover..just curious. Thanks for all the help!

Looks like I'll be cleaning a lot of sludge before I get it all back together. Probably some melted rubber in there too Glad to hear I can skip moving the driver side cam sprocket to 12:00 because it being at 6:00 and the passenger being at 12:00 is basically the same as the "standard" way of doing it. Just trusting but verifying

I had a little time yesterday to mess around with it, so I used the broken timing belt as a strap wrench with a vise grip. Worked great! My index hole on the DRIVER side is now at 6:00. I took the radiator out beforehand because it needs a new one and the clearance I then had was what I needed. The crank pulley is also off after I took off the "pitching rod" to use the Subaru flywheel tool I have, which worked pretty good. I'm pretty sure the leak I have is from the pipe going into the water pump, not the pump itself. I'm as cheap as the next guy, but I'm strongly considering a new pump since this one has around 70K on it, and it's not OEM. I would assume all new pumps come with a new O-ring? So...I'm going with the above quote. DRIVER side alignment hole @ 6:00 and is now aligned with the top notch (checked with a straight edge), and of course I put the PASSENGER side at 12:00 before I take that belt off so I can go from there. This is basically the same but vice versa as in the Miles video, right? I appreciate all the tips, they've really helped. I like the water/rock tips and the idea of backing off a little on the camshaft mark to get it to align when the new belt is on.

Yes. That's the choke. It's for starting the car. The process is to set it by pressing the gas pedal, take foot off the gas, and crank. Repeat until start without feathering the gas like was being done in one of your videos. All you do when you do that is flood it out. This is NOT like starting a modern car. When you check for a burst of fuel, which gets sprayed at cold start from hitting the gas pedal and also setting the choke, it goes into the PRIMARY bore- the bore with the choke valve, red rectangle side in your pic.

If you were running the car without draining the tank, you ran it on 5 year old gas. You'd think that after 5 months all the crud would be gone, but you have yet to verify a fuel filter, which means from the day you drove it first until now, all that crud that was in the tank had to go somewhere, and so far we can say it wasn't the fuel filter. I don't know if Subaru put a filter on the tank outlet/sending unit like old American cars have, but sometimes those can get full of gunk. If it's like any other carb, which it might not be in every single aspect, do the side with the choke valve. Hold the choke and throttle open when you do it, obviously. Speaking of that, did you happen to see what that valve did when it was running ok? Was it open? That is the PRIMARY side of the carb. The point here is if you're adding gas manually to the carb and you have decent spark and compression, it should do something because you're eliminating the tank, lines, fuel pump, fuel filter that should exist, and accelerator pump from the equation. I'd try it choke open and choke closed. Some cars are pretty choke sensitive.

This is a simple car. As others have stated, you need to verify that it has compression, fuel, and spark. If you were running it on 5 year old gas, it's possible crud in the tank clogged up the needle and seat since you apparently have no fuel filter. The same could be true for the carburetor inner passages and jets. That's WHY Subaru and every other manufacturer installed a fuel filter. When you look in the carb, I don't see how you can see the pump squirt with the choke blocking the throttle bore. Hold the choke open and THEN pump the gas to look for a shot of gas. Maybe I'm just used to BIG carbs, but the principal is the same. BTW- if you're still trying to start the car with those plugs, you're wasting your time. Sometimes even plugs you clean just won't get it going. I ran into this once with my old Chevy. Spend the $10 and start with NEW plugs. If you keep the car, you need to buy some tools and a basic book to keep it on the road, as I stated earlier. That's just the way it is with old cars. There are people who can set idle and mixture screws by ear, but they've been doing it for years. Same goes for timing. I doubt the guy at Autozone was one of those guys. A car is always worth more running than sitting. You will take a loss and the next guy will probably turn around and fix it with not too much fuss.

That service hood slot is great! Thanks for the tip! That makes it a ton easier to move around on that side. I'll be giving the old belt as a strap wrench + vice grip clamping the belt a whirl. That's a good idea. I wish I had a vice grip big enough to grip that whole pulley That side is tough. I wish it was the other side where it's easier to grab the pulley. I've considered buying a strap wrench because I can use it for other stuff, but I'll try the belt first.

How old is the gas? Did you clean or drain the tank? If you trace the fuel line from the inlet at the carb all the way back to the gas tank outlet, and you don't see a canister of some kind in the way, the fuel filter was removed for who knows what reason. Honestly, it looks to me like something was in a hole in that bracket above your brake booster, but that's just an observation. Subaru's are luckily cheap for most parts. Don't try to clean plugs when it costs you less than $10 to buy a full set. If you have an old car with a carb, you really should pick up a tach/dwell meter and a vacuum gauge.