subaru1988

I was talking about setting the choke as in getting the car ready to drive for the day, not tuning or "setting up" the choke. On the carbs I'm familiar with, they require setting up the choke with drill bit sizes and specific clearances for pull off rods and the like, and then the choke is fine tuned for driver preference or location after that. https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/the-lost-art-of-choke-adjustment Lots of people that never owned a carbed car think you can just hop right in it and take off without knowing or caring about the choke. The owner's manual is long gone and they don't know there is actually a specific procedure you go through to start the car, ie. setting the choke.

I have a background with old American cars (I have an SPFI Subaru), and it's the same principle when it comes to carbs. A CHOKE is used to start the car and keep it going until the car is warmed up enough to run on its own. If you don't use the choke when you start the car, it won't run right and you'll have to keep giving it gas until it's running on its own. You should be setting the choke on a cold start such as an overnight start. As for the accelerator pump, that's an easy check. Take the air cleaner lid off, look down the carb with the engine off in the barrel with the choke, hold the choke open, and move the accelerator cable by hand or have a helper do it from the driver seat. You should see a squirt of gas.

The FSM for an '89 says 20 BTDC @ 800 RPM for all models SPFI and MPFI with Turbocharger. I know you have an '87, but it can't be all that different. I'd make 100% sure the rotor points directly- as in dead nuts on- at the #1 post on the distributor before checking the timing again if you removed the distributor. FWIW, my car was timed 5 or 10 degrees off (too far advanced) before and after my timing belt job, and I'll tell you what. It runs so much better with those extra 5 degrees out of it. I'm not sure why, because you usually see a small seat of the pants improvement with advanced timing.

Lack of payments and the ability to fix most (or all) things yourself is a big reason for the old car habit..Man, is it hard to break! Same problem in "Subaru Country". They just aren't in the JY anymore at any real frequency. That said, the internet has probably kept these cars alive. When I did my recent timing belt/water pump/radiator job (thanks to this forum ), I bought parts for literally pennies on the dollar compared to locally. They're so cheap, it was "worth the try". This is so true..You can get ANY part for most old GM's from pretty much any restoration catalog. People willing to do their own work and parts availability basically means you can keep it forever. I understand Subaru not making parts in perpetuity, but don't people put Subaru engines in VW's and planes? It's not like there is no market at all. This isn't really an apples to apples comparison. I'd take my old Subaru wagon over the equivalent modern day econobox any day- Prius, Sentra, Aveo, or whatever it is. The fact that your car could possibly be fixed says something about how it was built. Today's equivalent cars would already be junked. You sure something else wasn't going on with your seat? Seats are still bolted to the floorboards in even modern stuff. In the past when they were there, I saw vintage Subarus in the junk yard that took massive hits in the rear but the seats didn't come out of the floor...?

Since people in the know really talk up old Subaru axles, what about reman'd OEM axles? Are they also worth regreasing and rebooting like OEM axles if it's a proven good unit? Both of my axles make a little noise and the boots are torn, and according to what I've read on here, one of them is a reman Subaru piece because it has the green outer "housing" on the tranny side. Both of my axles are NOT the originals, but they've lasted 100K+ miles. First thing I'm going to do is the grease needle trick on one of them to get my by for awhile, but if I could get away with just rebooting and repacking at least one of them, that would be great. Old cars can be great daily drivers IF the driver is willing to do the extra maintenance they need. Newer cars have problems too, though. As idosubaru said, many old cars fall prey to the tin worm long before they wear out mechanically, unfortunately.

Subaru Service Manuals

Interesting...I didn't know that was out there; thanks for posting part numbers. That's not a bad price, either. Looks like you've done lots of work on lots of cars. That's the only rub on running the old stuff, but being able to actually DO something with it other than paying somebody else to work on it counteracts that.

I hope the Lisle version of that tool is better than the less expensive one. I tried the latter and the pot metal it was made of made the tool worthless by way of rounding off the knobs that are supposed to turn the piston in. Talk about frustrating.. I've also done it with needle nose in a pinch. I finally wound up with the Harbor Freight brake kit, and while it was not a perfect fit, it still took minutes instead of hours to SCREW (as others have stated) the pistons in.

You said earlier you took out the distributor. I would suggest that you need to make absolutely sure the rotor is pointing right at the #1 post on the cap at TDC using the IGNITION timing marks on the flywheel. In other words, if you took the dizzy out without the car running to verify it was in right, it may not be in right after the first shot. Ask me how I know that "it's very close" isn't good enough. Follow the FSM instructions for this when it comes to the positions of the cam pulleys in relation to TDC on the compression stroke.

That's a nice car. The latest "Old Cars Report Price Guide" gives an estimate of about $2500 to $4000 for an '84 Subaru sedan in that condition. It's somewhere between a 2 and a 3($2500 on their scale), much closer to 2 ($4000). It's worth what someone is willing to pay, but I'd want more than $2500 for it. The miles are too low and it's in too nice of shape, plus you can prove the mileage. If you give it away, it'll be one of those cars where the guy that buys it will be at the local cars and coffee bragging to everybody how little he paid for it with 25K miles on it in this shape. In other words, you sold it too cheap. Sell it right, and you'll be fine with what you get. Heck, even if you keep it and wait for a better market in your area, and in the meantime put 5K miles on it, it's still under 30K miles. That's assuming you keep it in the same shape, of course.

As others have said, sorry about your Mom. Sure, there might not be a big market for it like there is for a more popular car, but that being said., it only takes one person. It's worth what that one person is willing to pay for it. You might be surprised what someone in your area will pay...there's a reason there are a ton of newer ones on the road in the mountain states, and yours just might hit somebody's nostalgia button. That era of Subaru created MANY fans of the marque. As stated earlier in the thread, young people that like older Japanese cars, even if just for a "different" every day driver, are out there too.

1992_Subaru_Service_Manual-Engine_Wiring

This XT issue is beyond my current Subaru pay grade , but that being said, it's my general understanding the total voltage drop on positive and negative sides of an electrical fuel pump should be less than a total of 1.0V (.5 for posit side +.5 for negative side). Your numbers show a total voltage drop of 1.5V when you add both together. If a SUbaru is different for some reason, I'm sure someone will correct me, and my apologies. One would think .36 in that one circuit wouldn't be much, but maybe that seemingly small amount is translating to a voltage loss that is causing issues above idle. I respect you really getting into the weeds with this, and not just throwing parts at it. What you're doing is real troubleshooting; plus it's cheaper in the end when you figure it out

The ring isn't just too loose..It's off the pulley completely. When I had it all apart, I moved it around and settled on leaving it against the block after wondering what it was. Since I didn't know much about this engine, I thought it was like a little guard for the seal or some kind of shim or weird type of spring. I think it stayed there for a few drives, and it worked itself loose again so it can make noise and make me think my new tensioners were going bad already . At this point, it's the noise that's the nuisance more than anything. As I said earlier, I've heard the noise before, but it was muffled enough for me to think it was wearing pulleys or a noisy P/S pump. I took the Dremel to the covers and now the sprocket on the passenger side has the same clearance the driver does. As a matter of fact, the idler pulley was an area where the belt was also rubbing the covers to no real harm. It was a failed water pump gasket leak that did my belt in, plus years of crud with new belts being installed in all that muck by prior jobs. I CLEANED it all. I'll be keeping any eye out for spare parts online and around the area. Maybe something will pop up. DaveT, lucky for me the belt is tracking more toward the front of the pulley than the rear of it. They're both tracking pretty nice IMHO. I checked this a few times after the initial start and now a few times after driving it.

I had no idea what I was looking at the first time when I had it all apart. I looked in the FSM, and didn't see it, and that's why I called it a shim/washer.That said, I know it's been an "issue" a long time- probably years and many thousands of miles. I've heard it making noise behind the covers as I said. Along the same lines, the passenger side belt at one time literally carved a 3mm deep or so 3 inch "trench" in the back cover from running on the back of the the cam sprocket. I did my best to Dremel it all out while still leaving some cover. That's not ideal either, but it didn't cause that belt to break, and that belt was fine when I took it apart. Cool of you to offer to weld it! I wish I could do it. I don't weld, and I wish I did. I'll keep any eye out for ANY used stuff that might pop up, but these cars are long gone from the roads here. I don't expect a "real fix" to be done with it on the car other than...snip, snip.

I guess it depends on how easy the pulley comes off for me if I try it. My pulley has one hole, not a few like the cam sprockets, otherwise I'd use the pin wrench I used on that to at least try to hold the pulley. I don't weld ( I wish I did, I've been wanting to get into it), so I don't have the tools or the know how, so that's not an option at all. El Freddo made a good suggestion that just MIGHT work, but there's always the chance the thread locker lets go, and I'm back at square one again. Same goes for peening it. I read in the linked thread I posted that cutting it off is not the worst option for this- as in try to fix it next timing belt change...which is 50K miles or so. At 258K, I'll be happy with another 25-30K out of the car. Then again, I said the same thing 30K ago, and it still runs great I think you mentioned you cut it on a few cars if I'm not mistaken, another poster suggested it, and the OP in that thread wound up doing it with not a lot of fuss. I believe I have some Aviation snips around if that's what it comes down to, or maybe I can wrangle up something smaller to cut with. If I would have known that this car would've lasted this long, I would've done like you and grabbed extra parts here and there, and the oil pump would have been on the list. The problem is for the oil pump, there are no new parts, and used parts around here are non-existent. I screw it up for this rinky dink part, and the whole car is screwed for who knows how long. I'm in "Subaru country". There are still a TON of newer Subaru's on the road, but this older generation were rode hard, used up, and already had their cycle in the salvage yards. I haven't seen one in a few years.

Honestly, that thing has probably been like that for years and years and tens of thousands of miles on my car. I've heard that "sound" more than a few times with the hood up and covers on. I just chocked it up to belt and pulley noise and didn't think about it beyond that. I wouldn't be surprised if it came off with age at some point since it was on there cheaply or through belt breakage years ago. It comes down to the pros/cons of which way to go considering parts availability, effort involved (read here the oil pump pulley is a real PITA, but FSM says only 13 lbs?), and others' experiences with this issue, I guess.

I've learned the hard way with these cars that timing that is too far advanced will make your car run and idle poorly. At least that was certainly true with my '88 SPFI Wagon. The whole "computer" in these cars complicates it some, at least between the ears, for those of us used to carbs, points, etc. I say that about the computer because in old cars, a vacuum can for a high performance car is different than one for a base car, and so is the total mechanical timing curve. One would think the settings would be different for timing, etc from car model to car model and ECU to ECU since the "computer" supposedly controls ignition advance, at least from what I've read on here. In other words, are you forcing a Turbo ECU to work with a non-Turbo engine? If so, does it really make any difference at any setting, including at idle when you connect the green connectors? Just throwing that out there since timing CAN obviously cause driveability issues. Just in general principle, I'd start at 6 BTDC and go up from there. You'll find the sweet spot with some trial, error, and logging your changes.

I had a few minutes, so I went out with a hose and a funnel stuck on the end to make a "megaphone" so to speak. I found that funnel tip on a Youtube video, thought it was pretty cool to try with the hose suggestion. Anyway, I put the end of the hose ON the idler pulley bolt, no noise. I put it as close as I dared to the DRIVER side tensioner, no noise. Passenger side tensioner, nothing. I did it when I started it at fast idle, and when it was warmed up at an idle while I checked after checking the idle speed (700, no need to mess with the SPFI, luckily). I found this thread...This honestly sounds like my issue, especially this part about hearing an "extra jingle from under the hood". It seems to me like this is quite a rinky dink way of putting a guide on the back of the pulley. According to this, it's safe to cut it off and run it. I don't see why it wouldn't be, as many here run without back belt covers, and the cam sprocket has no guide on it. Who knows how long it's been this way.

I like the hose idea. I have a good amount of it laying around, and I'll give that a try. The new "pulleys" I put on were just like you said- "a little dragging from the normal grease" with no noise at all. I find it hard to believe one of these would fail with less than 100 miles on it. Actually, a bad bearing wouldn't seem to be a heat related noise (ie. more noise when cold, less when hot) only, right? I was thinking more along the lines of MY perception of engine noise with the car since I'm used to the covers being on. After watching some of Fox's old videos, I've come to the conclusion that these engines aren't exactly quiet runners. That and my car is all I have to go by with what is "normal". No, it's a silver piece right behind the oil pump pulley. Pic below, sorry for the size. It's just there. It's not attached to anything, and it moves around by touching it. I'm just trying to do process of elimination here like taking the drive belts off. As I said in my first post, the covers ARE off. I left them off for shaking all of this down after I put everything together, and I'm glad I did. If I wasn't worried about road salt/mag chloride in the winter, I'd frankly leave them off. As for the distributor shaft, I've checked that distributor A LOT ( had it in and out for other reasons), and it had no play or noise. That was the first place I listened, and it seemed quiet back there, luckily. Lots of good info, and as always, thanks for the input.

The noise starts at a cold start, does it while I warm it up at idle for a few minutes, settles down some, and after the car is at op temp, it's barely there. After it's warmed up, I can't hear it much outside the car, and inside, I don't hear it at all. If it was a tensioner or idler pulley bearing, that would really suck because every single one is brand new out of a package. The tensioners are GMB, and the idler pulley is a made in Japan Melling, which looks an awful lot like an OEM one. I've heard people reuse old idlers/tensioners and have no issues. I checked them all before installing, and they were "firm" to spin with no sounds. I've read arguments for and against retensioning the timing belts. I wonder about that because it nearly goes away when the engine is warmed up, and the belts have a fair amount more tension when I finger check it. I'm also wondering how much of a factor my not running the front belt covers is. I'm used to it with those on; I'm not sure if leaving them off makes the whole shebang noisier.

I got the timing squared away on my car, and it actually runs pretty nice. I can let it sit and idle for as long as I want now, as opposed to 30 seconds or so before it wanted to stall. The issue was TOO MUCH timing. I believe someone messed with my dizzy, and the timing was WAY off, and it was this way for years. I should have verified TDC with the cap post/rotor/flywheel marks years ago, but whatever. It used to ping pretty bad at part throttle up hills for years before I undertook this whole project, and I get NOTHING now @ 20 BTDC. It was nice to drive it again, the temp needle is just under 1/2 way up, and 2 TBSP of Subaru Coolant Conditioner seems to have helped my weeping water pump bolt, but now.. A noise has cropped up on the front of the engine. It "sounds" like a noisy bearing or something rubbing, but I'm not sure. At cold start, it's obvious it's there, but when the car warms up, it's still there but nowhere close to being as apparent. Windows rolled up, you can hardly hear it cold or warm. That said, after the time and effort into this car so far, I want it right. I've got about 70 miles or so on the car after all the work I did to it. I took off the drivebelts today, and I started it for 10 seconds or so to isolate the power steering pump, alternator, and water pump as NOT being the issue. The noise was still there. What are the chances one of my brand new tensioners is bad?! Has anybody had that happen? Any other common things to look for that could cause noises? Anybody have an idea what that washer/shim looking thing is on the back of the oil pump pulley? I'm wondering if that could even be the noise source.. Can a timing belt that needs to be retensioned cause that type of noise? FWIW, they seem to be looser cold and after I come back from a drive, they do tighten up a fair amount with the thumb test. I'm used to the car with the belt COVERS ON. How much noisier is it really with them OFF? Thank God I left the belt covers off while I'm doing the shakedown on this car

I'm not sure of the major differences between your year and others, but you can get A LOT of FSM's right here (yes, they are free): http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/--Old Models--/

I'll do that. I'm positive the dizzy is installed right now. I'm beginning to wonder if someone before me messed with the dizzy and didn't take the time to set TDC/rotor/cap correctly. At least I know where I'm at with relation to doing TDC/rotor/cap right now. *Edit- For anyone that sees this thread in a search, if you follow the instructions in the video I posted using the Subaru FSM sprocket pics as the way to find TDC compression stroke to install the dizzy, that's the CORRECT way you position the dizzy to use the factory #1 plug wire. My car runs pretty nice now, it even idles OK, and I was able to set the timing. Hot tip- pics and vids of other setups are nice references, but not all cars act the same. I'll look for the thread you referenced. Thanks for the help!

I had a few minutes to beat my head against the wall again today, so I took the opportunity :p I reinstalled the dizzy again, lined up the rotor, the dimple on the gear, and the cap post on #1. All of these marks are dead in line with each other. At ZERO, the dizzy housing started off at the far end of the slot toward the hood, and I set it about where I tried to make a mark the first time. The one slot end essentially being at 0 makes sense to me, but who knows. What reason would there be for the timing setting to be ATDC. Anyway, the engine is at TDC compression stroke, and of course 0 on the IGNITION marks for physically installing the dizzy. The sprocket CAM marks are 45 from each other outward. It started great, high idle worked fine, it idled better at cold start than last time. It DROVE great and drives nice. The stalling at IDLE issue remains. When it warms up, it wants to stall on me at idle. I have a new cap, new rotor, and the plug wires measured about 4.5 Ohms for the short wires, and 7.5 for the long ones. I have to say there were times before the belts broke that I did have to stab the gas to keep an idle. It just wasn't quite as bad. It was like 30 seconds worth, and then it acted up. In addition, one time it was zero degrees out last year, and driving that car was like a bucking bronco- it was surging like crazy. When the weather warmed up, problem gone, at least until it sat at idle for more than 30 seconds. Now it won't idle that long. No CEL light is on, BTW. It starts right up cold or warm. Now that I've eliminated the timing belts and the distributor position out of the equation, I'll guess I have to find out where to head next with getting this car squared away..