a97obw

Ahhh, good point. It may even be residue from the old seal that is still on the camshaft wiping out the new seals. Nothing a little piece of red scotchbright and a squirt of carb cleaner won't remove before going back with the new seals---using a rubber mallet and a large socket that has been very well taped up around the flange and the inside to keep from putting a "gronk" on the camshaft!

I took it to a dealer who says it will cost close to $600 to do the work. Good grief man! Oops, I mean Maa'm! It's nothing but turning the engine over to line up the marks on the crank and cams, then removing the timing belt, removing the valve cover and using a BIG crescent wrench like the ones at Harbor Freight for $12 to hold the camshaft by the hex shaped portion of the cam, use a breaker bar and socket to remove the camshaft pulley, pull the old seal out and tap a new one in....put it all back together. Is anyone aware of chronic problems with this vintage Subaru and the cam seals, or in particular the after market parts? I would definitely go OEM (Genuine Subaru Parts) for the camshaft/crankshaft seals. Seems like the trouble started back when I had cam cover gaskets with seals replaced in 2003 Uh huh.......hmmmmm.....I don't recall seeing it in the Haynes manual for the Subarus, but I will tell you this. The Miata engine and its overhead cam type cylinder head is simlilar to the Subaru in that the valve cover gasket/valve cover mating surface is flat....with two exceptions.....where the front camshaft bearing caps (that hold the cam seals) create a semi-circle in the valve cover/valve cover gasket. Now, on the Miata, you put just a dab of sealant on the camshaft caps at the spots where the valve cover/gasket changes from flat to a semi-circle. Ok, there are 4 such spots (per side on your Subaru). So you put a dab of sealent either on the gasket or the camshaft caps at those points and your valve cover gasket won't leak. I've done it on my 97 OBW 2.5 engine. I'm wondering if this is where the leak is REALLY coming from and not the actual camshaft seal.

This has to do with Lucas electrics and it isn't as much of a big deal as everyone makes it out to be. The English do call him "The Prince of Darkness" LOL. I once dated a girl from Chile who worked for Pepsi, traveling around the area setting up accounts for the vending machines. She told me the next day she was going to see the management of the new Jaguar (that's Hag-waar in spanish!) dealership. I told her if they were being a hard sell to tell them "unlike the coke machine with its Lucas electronics, the pepsi machine has the good Bosch electronics". They about fell over backwards! But as far as Land Rovers, i've seen more of them as "yard art" than on the road. Wouldn't have one. Jaguar in the body of a truck. And if you think about it, do you ever recall seeing Marlin Perkins riding in the Land Rover being chased by the rhino? I didn't think so.

I'll get the Subi out on the road escorting on Monday and report back. Well, that's certainly a twist on "Pimp my ride"!

nipper said: "your off by at least one tooth on the timing belt. The spark system is a waste spark system. the two cylinders connected to the one coil fire both at the same time. What your seeing is the timing that is off is causing too many fires of the coil." Nipper, let me ask you this. I just finished the timing belt replacement on my 97 OBW 2.5; it runs like a Rolex at idle, pulls strong accelerating, yet has a very annoying mild "shake" at between 800-1200 RPM. At idle around 800 RPM a timing light hooked to the #1 plug wire indicates timing right at about 14 degrees. I do have a small leak on the back of the power steering pump that I'm going to address in the next few days. It isn't either of the reservoir O rings---been there, done that for the both of them. I suspect the slightly retarded timing may be due to the power steering issue. But where is the power steering sensor located? And the puzzler I've searched to resolve......at idle the #1 and #3 (passengers side of the engine) fire at least twice as fast as the #2 and #4 side when the timing light is hooked to them. This whole "waste spark" design I understand, but whats up with that? (hopefully we'll get some good info for the original thread---didn't mean to hijack.)

Ok, let me put it this way.... To do the head gaskets, the clutch and everything else (they are figuring the parts into that $1800 figure, correct?) is really only going to cost you $1450 because you were going to spend $350 anyways to have the valves adjusted and new valve cover gaskets installed. Correct? (Ahhh, just spend the $350, if the rest happens further down the line so be it!)

I guess it must have been about 9 years ago that 3 of my fellow PCA (Porsche Club of America) buds and I took my 92 Legacy AWD automatic wagon up to Memphis for a PCA event at the Memphis Motorsports track...basically a drag strip with a lonnnnnngggg straight away and a few good corners that bring you back to the start line of the dragstrip.....so between events they had a charity thing where they opened up the track for a donation. Sign the waiver, hand her the money, cause the Soobie is gonna mix it up with the 911s, 944s, 928s.....I can still remember the big smile looking at me from the rear view mirror of a 944 as we were on his A$$ going through the corners.....4 dudes all belted up in a Legacy Wagon!

Having just finished replacing the head gaskets and clutch in my 97 Legacy Outback at 91k miles I'll tell you this: It happened to mine at 91k miles. The parts ALONE to do both head gaskets, all the seals, timing belt, 1 timing belt pulley, the clutch pressure plate, clutch plate and throw out bearing....everything required to do it and do it right came to right at $800---from a discount Subaru dealership (OK, Jason at 1stSubaru parts!) then add another $100 for parts that I didn't count on needing that I got from my local dealership......lets see, $155 for the shop crane from Harbor Freight that now takes up space in my storage building where I did all the work (had to put it together as well), $55 to have a machine shop surface the cylinder heads, $35 to have the flywheel surfaced at another machine shop (did I mention both were all the way across town?), about 15 cans of O'Reillys carb cleaner @ $2.50 or whatever a pop, paper towels out the ying yang, don't forget the $42 worth of NGK "Unobtanium" spark plugs..... BAND AIDS! cause the engine had all kinds of sharp edges on it and little aluminum burrs that work like splinters in your fingers.....OUCH!! Cost of my labor: Priceless! @ $1800 to do all of that and all you have to do is hand a mechanic a check or a credit card.....IF you are going to plan on keeping the car another 50k miles......JUMP on it! (you're due for a water pump anyways!)

Didn't see the oil pump plate screws loose on either of my 92 2.2 or 97 2.5 engines when I replaced the O rings. I replaced them "since I was there"....well, the 2.5 needed a new front crankshaft seal that was bleeding like a stuck pig:dead: ok stuck bananna so since I was there went ahead with the new O ring and seal. Remove the bolts, and you might have to lightly...lightly now is the key word here.....tap around the oil pump with a rubber mallet. It should come off fairly easy. Clean the mating surfaces really well, I like a piece of the red scotchbright and carb cleaner to clean things....lightly....., tap the new seal in the pump housing, stick a little oil or grease on the new O ring, stick that pup in the engine block, use an anaerobic sealent as the Haynes manual outlines and carefully place the housing onto the crank and watch that front seal---you don't want the spring that is a part of the seal to "pop out" of its groove as you are sliding it up and onto the crank. Take your time, rest assured you been there done that!

In resolving my head gasket issue on my 97 Legacy Outback wagon, I decided since I had the engine out of the car it would be prudent to change the clutch/pressure plate/throw out bearing/pilot bearing now at 91k miles. I frequently pull a trailer with an ATV with the Subaru, so why not. So lets look at a photo of the old and the new with regard to the pressure plate: Notice I used a yellow marker to mark the relationship of the flywheel and the old pressure plate before removing them. I also marked the relationship of the flywheel to the crankshaft for that matter and reinstalled that at the same place. Anyway, the mark I made for the flywheel and pressure plate are at about the 4:00 position on the outer edge of the original pressure plate and the ring gear of the flywheel. In the photo, I've laid out everything as it was/is fitted. The old pressure plate had a punch mark and magenta paint at about 12:30 which I should think marks the point of "imbalance" so to speak. The new pressure plate has a white paint mark at about 12:30 (it is OEM from a Subaru dealer) which I should think represents the point of "imbalance", yet I cannot discern any punch mark. However, the new pressure plate does have a stamped circle opposite the makers logo, which is at about 9:15. The flywheel has one red dot on the inside of the friction surface at about 5:00 and a blueish green dot on the ring gear as well as the inside of the friction surface at about 7:00. I took these as the point of "imbalance" for the flywheel (the blueish green). If it is the red mark, they are pretty close.Looking back now it appears this is where the factory "drilled" the flywheel in an attempt to balance it? I had the flywheel surfaced before putting it back on the engine with the new components. Anyway, the new pressure plate was installed as you see it laid out in the photo. Reason I'm asking is that the engine now has a range of considerable vibration/shaking/out of balance between 800-1200 RPM. I've got no check engine light situation, all connections as far as vaccum and electrics are good, new plugs but not new wires. I've "searched" for this issue for the past 5 days now! A new PCV valve and a sip of Seafoam and it's still there. Just wondering what you guys that have done the clutch think about the marks. (Please, reserve the comments for the Walmart slippers!)

Look around and find the engine. Hell, I'll give $50 for it if you're getting the transmission for $25! (But I think some dude with a Legacy Outback has already found the goods!)

I'm probably the only Land Surveyor in a 5 state area that works out of a Subaru Legacy Outback. My 92 Legacy wagon AWD was fantastic, then I moved up to my 97 Outback with the 5 speed. I've been through plenty of mud here in The South, and never once have I been stuck! Funny how Subaru changed their selling pitch from "All Wheel Drive" to "All Weather Drive".......if they changed it to "GMD" (Go Muddin' Drive) they'd sell a LOT more of them in The South!

I got one a month ago from Fram and I put it on. A quart of synthetic all over the floor. Came from the filter. Upon further inspection, the old gasket was stuck on the block when I put the new filter on. The gaskets doubled up and didn't seal properly. Man O Man! If there is only one thing you learn about your Subaru from this message board, that is IT! I like the standard 14460 Purolator filters for my Legacies, and they will do the same thing with the gasket if you aren't careful. So check and double check that gasket!

Dude, 60k on the Phase 1 2.5? I might stand corrected!

"There are 2 different crank position sensors for 90-94 2.2's. But i doubt there is much difference between the two, besides the connector." Au contrere mon frere!! One of them is about $28 to replace, the other is about $350!! And when your Legacy with the 2.2 hasn't been run for several months, and a mouse or meeces has taken up residence on the top of your engine where they eat, poop and pee......if they peed on your crank angle sensor it is going to be severly corroded to the housing, and will only come out by being destroyed! That thing must have 4 miles of white thread in it for some reason! And mine was the $350 flavor! ($50 at the salvage yard and I was back in business!)

WOW! I'm in the wrong business! The Phase 1 2.5 4 cam 4 cylinder engines specify NGK "Laser platinum" plugs with a specified replacement interval of 100k miles. Have you checked your owners manual for the specs?

Hmmm, those photos are rather suspicious aren't they? And that "end wrench" document? Why in the $@%# would you want to remove the cam pulleys if you aren't going to replace the camshaft seals?? That's silly and uncalled for! Ok, basically what you want to do is find the marks on the timing belt. In all the ones I've done, looking at the engine you can read "Subaru yada yada" on the belt when it is installed correctly--as in the tooth count right and left of the crankshaft mark---the crank mark on the belt is identified by the line that is made up of dots, i.e. "......" across the belt. The other are the solid lines. The crank should have the arrow pointing at 3:00 o'clock and the inscribed tab on the back at 12:00 o'clock (looks like a tooth off in the photos?), the cams should have an inscribed mark in the outer perimeter of the pulleys which lines up with the notch in the plastic cover behind the pulleys at the 12:00 o'clock position. Now the "trick" to get it all lined up is to remove the lower left idler (as you are looking at the engine), fit the belt where it is supposed to go, then reinstall that lower left idler by putting it in place and lifting up on the belt to get the bolt to line up with the hole and then thread it in. Double check the marks and then release the pin from the tensioner. If your tensioner is NOT in the compressed position, you'll have to compress it in a vise. SLOWLY!. Put it in the center of the vise so that it compresses evenly and not at an angle, and tigten the vise just a little bit at a time......like an 8th of a turn and wait several seconds before tightening another 8th of a turn. The whole process of compressing the tensioner should take about 10 minutes. Again, do it SLOWLY!. Make sure the hole in the piston of the tensioner lines up with the holes in the housing so you can fit a small allen wrench once you are there. All of this before initially installing the belt. Thats where you slide the tensioner to the right, tighten it, then install the belt, move tensioner to left---I'll use a big screwdriver to lever the tensioner all the way left and then tighten, check belt marks again and then pull the pin on the tensioner. Good procedure in the Haynes manual. Get ya one if you don't have one!

I had no problem getting the larger bolts---the ones that fit the center and rear camshaft caps to the head---torqued to 14.5 ft. lbs which is what was specified by the few pages of the factory manual that a vendor was cool to send me. However, as for the smaller bolts that hold the front camshaft caps---the ones with the seals----I think I had one of them go to 14.5, then the next one broke as I metioned in this initial message board thread. I broke all of those loose again and ordered 8 new bolts for the front camshaft caps, then went back and reinstalled everything, stopping short of the 14.5 for the front ones---probably 10 or 11 I would guess. Check the Haynes manual for the specs.---I did find the specs for the 2.2 engine and I seem to remember 120-144 in. lbs which would be 10-12 ft. lbs.; if you are using a ft. lb. torque wrench this is probably right at the bottom of the specs for the wrench, but about the middle of a smaller 1/4 inch drive in. lb. wrench. I put each bolt back in the same hole it was originally in, and before fitting it all together I blasted each hole with carb cleaner, then WD 40 and trial threaded the bolts to make sure they threaded easy. When I finally installed them, I put just a shot of WD 40 on the bolts and then tightened them as per the pattern several times just a bit mo' snug ( I can say that!) before reaching the final torque values. Hope this helps!

I'm guessing you did relieve the torsion of the anti-roll bar by disconnecting it at one of the hubs, didn't you?

I'd guess quite a bit of that air leak you are hearing is air going the other way---past the piston rings----since you are turning over a cold engine by hand. I wouldn't worry about it.

No, you misunderstood... I've got a totally different car now, and it is the same one I fixed! Was it worth it? Well, about $900 in parts alone to do the head gaskets, water pump, clutch, timing belt, a cogged idler, all the other gaskets, rear main oil seal.....add another $55 for the heads to be resurfaced, $70 to have the radiator completely dismantled, cleaned etc., stock at O'Reillys' auto parts has gone way up since I kept them in business buying carb/choke spray cleaner.....yeah, it took 3 weeks to do it from start to finish, but I took my time and did an immaculate job. It should be good to go for another 150k miles. Basically, without fixing it, the car was worth very little---especially in the South! So instead of new car payments, full coverage insurance for the next 4-6 years I think it was a CHEAP fix in the long run!

Sounds like the head gaskets to me. Yesterday I finally finished replacing the head gaskets and a lot of other things while I had the engine out. It's a 97 Legacy Outback wagon 5 speed with 91k. I had all the symptoms you are explaining. I can only guess mine has been a problem for a LONG time. Before the repairs the car would sound like it was going to explode at 70-75 MPH. There was a LOT of noise in the cabin. I passed it off thinking it was either the hood scoop or the roof rack and the fact that the engine is turning about 3200 RPM at this speed. Nada, nope, gone! I've got a totally different car now.

Easy way to check if the head gaskets have been replaced with the "current" gaskets---the "current" ones are a 4 layer metal gasket vs. the origingal 3 layers. On top of the engine you can find a couple of places where the gasket is considerably exposed, and with your finger nail you can seperate and count the layers. One of the middle ones is real thin, but there are 4 in there. If you buy that 98 I'd suggest considering replacing the head gaskets...mine on my 97 went out at 91k. Like you say, consider that in the bargaining process.

The procedure in the Haynes manual is the same as the Subaru factory manual, which includes tightening the upper and lower center bolts first. Then on to the outside corners. In your case, I'd definitely use new head gaskets, but as far as the head bolts go, I'm in the camp of using them again....simply because I've never seen the head studs replaced "by procedure" in an air cooled volkswagen or Porsche, sure the torque is probably much lower but these studs get much hotter and I would bet they stretch much further than the ones in your Subaru. They'll pull out the threads in the case before they exceed the modulus of elasticity of the bolts. By far. But do what you feel comfortable with and take your time. I've been along the same road you are going for the past 3 weeks, and it is a LOT of work! Good Luck!

Finishing up the head gasket/clutch job on my 97 Legacy Outback wagon, so I thought I'd share a couple tips. First off, if you are going to remove and replace the rear main crankshaft seal, this was the ticket to install the new seal. It is a PVC cap, it is 4" in outside diameter and about 3/16" thick. I put a sheet of 400 grit sandpaper on the floor and then in a swirly motion sanded any sharp edges/casting marks from the cap. Worked like a champ driving in the new seal with a rubber mallet. Just get it going in straight and check it several times! The other tip is for holding the flywheel in order to tighten it onto the crankshaft, along with tightening the front crank pulley. Simply use one of the pressure plate bolts and screw it in the flywheel leaving it not quite all the way threaded in, then find a piece of wood. In my case, this particular stake is called a "flat". Go find your local Surveyor and ask him for a "flat" and not a "hub". He'll be impressed you know the difference!