Mikevan10

Thank you guys. I will order the Exedy clutch and prepare for the job.

If it were my car I probably would do just that - live with it. But it is wifey's car and she is not willing to do so (at least not quietly). This clutch package has a couple or three thousand miles on it by now so I really doubt the operation will get any better on its own. Does anyone have any other responses to my first post from yesterday or any other comments or suggestions? Thanks again, Mike V.

Berb, Yeah, as I said in an ealier post: "I will also mention that I did not get the flywheel resurfaced when I replaced the clutch. There was no grooving on it at all. In fact, the clutch I replaced only had like 30,000 miles on it and the driven plate (aka clutch disc) had plenty of lining material left on it. Like I said, I did the job only because the release bearing had failed. Anyway, I needed to get the job done over the weekend so I did not get the flywheel machined. I just hit it with scotchbrite discs on a drill which removed any glaze." The flywheel surface looked geat. And there was no judder prior to doing the clutch job - remember, I did the clutch job only because the release bearing had failed. Mike

l am going to move ahead and order an Exedy clutch kit as was recommended above. The reason for doing this is that I am hoping that the cause of the judder is that the recently installed clutch kit was of poor design and/or manufacture. This seems like a stretch but I don't have any better ideas. I will also have the flywheel resurfaced although, as I mentioned above, it was in what seemed to be perfectly serviceable condition when I did the most recent clutch job. As I mentioned before, the clutch kit that I put in included a transmission "snout" (aka quill) repair sleeve and the release bearing had a larger inside diameter to suit. This was a lucky break as it turned out that the snout had been badly gouged by the failed release bearing. I have done a little research and I have read comments (not on this forum) that "most clutch kits come with snout repair sleeves". Can anyone here agree or disagree with that? Also, it looks like the highly recommended Exedy kits do NOT come with the snout repair sleeve. Any comment about that? Finally, the only snout repair kits (only) that I have come up with in a Google search are the ones offered by Tranquil (sp?) and they have a price of about $150.00 which is in the range of an entire clutch kit. Any comments about this? Thanks for reading the long post. And if anyone has any other thoughts on my clutch judder issue I'd really be grateful to hear them! Thanks again, Mike V.

I have replaced two tires at a time many times on my Subarus. It's possible that I have never even replaced four at once. Always put both new tires on either front or back. Never had a "torque bind" issue. Never had a tire store or installation center question me.

I just reread this thread since it is quite informative for me. I am paying the price for having avoided really learning about electrical circuits for most of my life. Question 1: In his first post on this thread, Heartless said that the voltage was a “…hair shy of 14 volts at idle, no accessories on. Switch headlights on, and it bumps up just a tad, as expected.” Well, that is just the opposite of what I would have expected. I am assuming that the voltmeter is, for all intents and purposes, measuring the voltage across the terminals on the battery, and I would expect that voltage to DROP slightly when a load (i.e. the headlights) was placed on it. Question 2: In a later post, Heartless reported that “…apparently there is nothing wrong with the alternator - it was pushing out 15.5 volts at 2000 rpm, with hi-beam headlights on, and heater blower going full force. (guage only showed 13.5 volts)”. I do not understand how you get these two different voltages. Again, aren’t we really talking about the voltage (potential difference) across the battery terminals in all cases here? If so, how could the alternator be “pushing out” 15.5 volts but there is only 13.5 volts across the battery terminals. Sorry for being so dense about this stuff. Just trying to understand what is really going on. Thanks! Mike V.

So, Cougar, a good test would be to put a load on the battery (turn on head lamps for example) and then connect one probe of the volt meter to the negtive battery post and the other probe to the engine block? This would test the resistance in the ground cables and the associated connections?

If I were going to test the fan speed switch for correct functioning, I would first locate the plug connector for the switch. Then with my wiring diagram at hand, I would verify continuity (or lack thereof) between the different pins in the connector (verifying that what you get is what the wiring diagram indicates that you should have).

At the risk of insulting, a continuity test determines whether a connection is "closed" (no resistance; zero ohms) or "open" (infinite resistance). Multimeters typically (always?) have a ohm meter function, so, yes, a multimeter will test continuity.

And I too would be iterested in knowing where "...the whole climate control assembly can be had for ~$25".

Derek, I had the same problem on my 1992 Legacy, except that my switch was not "stuck". Are you saying that the fan speed switch worked fine one night and the next morning you went out and you could not slide (turn?) the switch at all? And it is stuck on the highest speed setting? If that is correct, then I guess I would suspect something with that switch itself. However, my problem, after troubleshooting the fuses and the blower relay and the resistor block, turned out to be a bad wiring connection. Search for my thread on this from a month or so ago. Good luck! Mike V.

I suggest using care as you remove the transmission so that you do not inadvertently dislodge anything. This way you can see if the release bearing clips are still in place and if the release bearing is in correct position with respect to the clutch fork. Would be interesting and maybe even useful to know. I have always wondered how inportant the clips are once the transmission is reinstalled and the clutch cable is adjusted.

Cougar, the electrical wizard, had it right. Long story short, the power input connection at the interior fuse box was dodgey. Alot of work, skinned knuckles, a broken relay and a bunch of time for what turned out to be a bad connection at a relatively accessible plug connector! Thanks to those who commented here. Mike

I picked up a general purpose relay today, but before installing it I did some more testing. I need some help from you electrical experts. Here's what I did. I unplugged the blower relay (as reported above). I connected a volt meter between the connector plug pin on the Red/Yellow wire and ground. This is the power feed wire from the fuse box. Got 12 volts. I pulled the two fuses out of the interior fuse box in the lower right hand corner of the box. These are labed "Heater" on the label inside the fuse box cover. I checked them both with an ohm meter. They both checked out good. I connected a test wire to the pin in the relay conector plug connected to the Red/Yellow wire and connected the other end of the wire to one of the pins on the blower motor. I connected the other pin on the blower motor to a known good ground. The motor did not respond. I then reconnected a volt meter between the Red/Yesllow wire and ground. 12V again of course. I then connected one pin on the blower motor to ground. When I connected the other pin on the blower motor to the Red/Yellow wire, the volt meter dropped from 12V to 0V. So if the blower motor is not in the circuit I have 12V on the Red/Yelloe wire but if I put the motor in parallel witrh the volt meter the voltage drops to zero. This should be telling to you electricians. I have my own theory but I'm not sure how to practically test it given the physical locations of everything. By the way, if I take my test wires and connect the motor across the battery terminals the blower immediately runs like gangbusters. Who has a theory? Thanks alot. Mike

I managed to find the heater blower relay yesterday! And with some difficulty I also managed to unplug its connector. I then attempted to pop the relay off of its mounting bracket but only succeeded in breaking the relay housing and it all fell behind, I think, the fuse box and will not be retrieved. Anyway, the connector is still WAY up under the dash and barely within finger tip reach. So it is not going to be easy to run an experiment where I short circuit the RY and RB wires to see if the blower motor comes on. I will try to do this but it will be difficult. Will I have to buy a new genuine Subaru relay from the Subaru dealer or is the connector some kind of a standard configuration such that I can buy a generic relay (headlight?) at NAPA our AutoZone, for example? Thanks, MIke V.

I had a few minutes to do a bit more testing last night. The first issue I had was that I was unable to make good "back connections" in order to take measurements with the connector connected to the blower motor. So I only took measurements with the motor disconnected. Here is what I found: Resistance between the BY (i.e. ground side) pin to chassis ground=0 ohms, regardless of the fan speed switch position. Voltage between the BY and BR pins in the connector = 5 volts (approx.), regardless of the fan speed switch position. Of course this is with the ignition ON and the mode selector switch in the HEAT position. The voltage drops to zero if I turn the mode selector switch to OFF. I then resumed my search for the blower motor relay. I did manage to spot the heavy gauge BR and RY wires WAY up under the dash. They are so far back up in there with so many other wire bundles, connectors, etc. in the way that it was difficult to even get a finger on them. I could NOT see where they conected to any relay, but I guess it must be up in there somewhere. If I ever do find it, I cannot imagine how I will be able to disconnect/reconnect it without first moving several wire harness out of the way (something I really do not want to do). I did spot a brown connector and a green connector up there that I believe are connected to other relays so I think I am looking in the right area. The fact that I only see 5 volts at the blower motor connector makes me still suspect the relay, or I guess it could be a bad connection somewhere. But I am also surprised that the fan switch position has no effect. Any comments or suggestions? Thanks again, Mike

Thank you Cougar and Ivan for jumping in on this. I really do appreciate it. I also really hate to have to do what I am about to do and that is to first ask for help, and then when help is volunteered to contradict it! But I am only trying to be logical/scientific. PLEASE bear with me. First off, I should have mentioned that the first thing I did, upon locating the blower itself, was to disconnect it and put a volt meter across the two pins in the connector. With the ignition on and the heater "ON", I believe the meter read about 6 volts across the pins, regardless of the fan speed switch position. I am not sure about this so I will test this again tonight to confirm. I do understand that the "grounding" side of the motor is connected to the resistor pack, but it also (in parallel, via the BY wire) is connected directly to the fan speed switch, which, if on the HIGH position, should connect it directly to "ground". Since the motor does not run even with the switch on HIGH and since the voltage across the pins does not change, I was thinking that this ruled out a problem with the resistor pack. But I guess it does not rule out a problem with the switch itself. I really should run the test Cougar suggested and connect the "ground" side (BY wire) of the motor to ground (with everything connected normally) and see what happens. I could also check the resitance from the pin connected to the BY wire and "ground" with the fan speed switch in various positions. I will look again and see if I see the relay mounted on a bracket ABOVE the computer (to be honest, I did not know that the computer was in that area on this vehicle). But, Ivan, my wiring diagram shows RY, RB, GB, and BR wires connected to the blower relay. It does not show any RW,WR, GW or WG wires connected to it. Again, I hate to contradict someone who is trying to help, but are you sure of these colors? Thanks again guys. I will try to take another look tonight. Thinking about this now, I am not sure how I concluded before that the problem was with either the fuse or the relay..... Mike V.

I have determined that the blower motor irself is just fine. The motor does not operate at any speed so I do not believe the ptroblem is with the resistor circuit that controls the fan speed. So it looks to me like it is either the fuse or the relay. Wrking with a Haynes manual, it is not clear which fuse box the blower motor fuse is in and examining the markings on the fuse box covers is not much help. Nor can I locate the blower relay. According to the Haynes manual, it is apparantly up under the dash to the left of the steering column. There are supposed to be several relays in this area but I only see one which, if I recall correctly, has a blue connector. This does not match with the info in the Haynes. Can anyone help me locate the blower relay and/or pinpoint the appropriate fuse(s)? Thanks, Mike V.

The heater fan on my 1992 Legacy sedan is not working, as I found out driving home from work in the snow last night. My first move is going to be checking the fuses, however I have a wiring diagram for my 1997 Legacy here at work and I was just taking a look at it and, among lots and lots of other stuff in the air conditioning control circuit, I see there is a Blower Relay. If the fuses are all good, I am thinking that the next thing to go after may be that relay. Does anyone know where the blower relay is located on a 1992 Legacy sedan? Any other troubleshooting suggestions would also me much appreciated! Thanks, Mike V.

Because I was suspecting that the juddering was caused by excessive (to me) clearance between the Autopart International release bearing and the snout repair sleeve. Or maybe some other shortcoming of the Autopart International release bearing. So you would suspect the Autopart International clutch cover and/or driven plate to be the culprit?

Whwn you install the snout repair sleeve, you increase the outside diameter of the snout by twice the wall thickness of the repair sleeve. This is not a big increase in diameter but I assumed that a standard release bearing would not fit on the repair sleeve. Is that not correct?

OK. Thanks very much for the clarifications and the advise! But what about the damaged snout? Does Exedy offer a repair sleeve/modified release bearing kit? Mike

Thank you GD and Nipper. If/when I haul it back apart, what brand clutch parts do you recommend? Should I bite the bullet and buy them from a Subaru dealer? GD, What do you mean by "Exedy". I don't know this term. Also, are you suggesting to buy a cutch from Amazon.com? The book and record store? If so, do they offer several different manufacturers? Sanding the snout will not do the job. The previous release bearing had disintegrated and in the process of failing had worn about a 1/4" wide x 3/16" deep groove into the o.d. of the snout. A circumferential groove, if you will. Not just some scratches from the release bearing sliding back and forth. That was why I was quite happy to see, quite unexpectedly, that the Autopart International clutch kit came with the snout repair sleeve and "matching" release bearing. I have replaced probably 4 or 5 Subaru clutches over the years and this is the first time I experienced judder issues. So, is the consensus that the Autopart International clutch is junk? I am thinking this may be correct, and I am very suspicious of the repair sleeve to release bearing fit. Trouble is, if I mail order replacements I won't be able to check that fit before I pay my money... It has also crossed my mind that my 2" Scotchbrite pad-on-a-drill deglazing method left a less than optimum (read that TOO grippy) flywheel surface finish. Mike V.

OK, the answer to the remaining question, "What brand clutch", is it is made by Autopart International. Anyone have any suggestions/comments about my clutch judder? Thank you. Mike V.

Wait, are you guys saying that if a front wheel bearing is failing you recomend replacing the steering knuckle/wheel hub as an assembly with a used one from a salvage yard?