Mikevan10

Thanks Stone. I will monitor the fuel mileage.

I think I have proven that the wiring from the brake light switch to the lights, the ground circuit and the bulbs themselves are all just fine as I described above. If I am missing something there PLEASE advise. I think I should now have enough understanding now to troubleshoot the power supply wiring (which, according to my logic, is where the problem lies). Good suggestion about checking the owners manual for a fuse box chart, Ed. I think I have that manual. I think someone posted fuse box charts on here before too. So if anyone has one handy......... Thanks all. Keep the ideas coming and I will keep y'all posted. Mike V.

OK. I have done some more homework. Studying the diagrams in the FSM, I think I have determined that the power routing to the brake light switch starts, of course, at the battery, enters the Main Fuse Box (M/B) which is under the hood at the Fusible Link (FL), then goes to Slow Blow Fuse No. 3 (SBF-3), then exits the Main Fuse Box via a Brown (BR) wire and goes to Fuse No. 12 in the "Fuse and Relay Box (F/B)" Now, I do not know but I would have thought F/B was the fuse box inside the passenger compartment, to the left of the driver's legs, but I do not remember this having any relays in it. Nor do I believe the fuses in that box are numbered. Any help here? Still hoping for comments on my previous post too... Thanks

Thanks for the comments guys! First, to respond to your remarks: The problem is only with the brake lights. All the other lights on the car work perfectly. The bulbs are fine (proven as you will read below). Last night's troubleshooting showed that the wiring from the brake light switch to the brake lights, the grounds and the bulbs themselves are AOK. I know this because if I connect "clean" 12 volts to the pin connected to the WB wire on the brake light switch connector plug (i.e. the output side of the switch), all three brake lights light up bright an beautiful! Rechecking the input power to the brake light switch shows that it is low. Reads like 8 or 9 volts on my multimeter. Now, I would have thought that 8volts DC would give me at least a glow, but what I think is happening is that there is a bad connection somewhere in the power feed to the switch and as soon as I try to use the power to light the lights, the voltage drop across that bad connection is too much so I get essentially 0 volts at the bulbs and no light. Does this sound plausible? The problem I have with this theory is that, if correct, I would think I would still read around 12 volts on my meter when I check it since there is essentially no current flow until it gets loaded. Anyway, I am trying to understand the power supply routing to the brake light switch. The FSM (Section 6-3, page 38) says the power comes to the switch (via a GW wire) from "FB-1, Fuse No. 12". I would have thought this meant FUSE BOX No. 1, but elsewhere (for other circuits) I see reference to, for examble, FB-20 and I am sure there aren't 20 fuse boxes in this thing! Can anyone please tell me exactly where I would find the correct fuse? I want to trace the power flow back to try to find the suspected bad connection. Does this make sense? Any other ideas? Thanks again gang. Mike V.

Thanks for the link to the manuals. A bit rough and not 100% complete but I think it will be a big help! Thanks again. I don't think a fuse could be the problem since I verified that I have power to the brake light switch. Truthfully, I have not figured out which fuse protects this particular circuit. It is not marked as such on either of the fuse box covers. Heading home to troubleshoot now. Will report back.

Looking at some diagrams I have for other cars, they reference a "Rear finisher" whic apparantly has light bulbs in it? Anyone know what that is?

Today's problem in my Subaru fleet is that the brake lights suddenly stopped working on my 1992 Legacy sedan. I spent a little while troubleshooting last night and got as far as determining that I have power to the brake light switch and that if I bypass (with a jumper at the connector plug) the brake light switch the lights still do not illuminate. I do not have a Factory Service Manual for this car. Can anyone help me find one? I do have an FSM for my 1997 Legacy but the wire colors do not match so it is not much help. My guess is that I have a bad connection at some intermediate connector plug but I do now know where any such plug(s) may be. The FSM, I believe, has a (quite difficult to follow) means to locate connectors and ground points. Or if anyone here is familiar with this series Legacy you may know where they can be found? Any other suggestions? Grateful as always, Mike V.

OK, just to put you guys' minds at ease....the mechanic at the repair shop who inspected my vehicle reset the OBDII, drove the car for about 15 miles (CEL did not come back on) and was able to then plug in and it passed the emmissions test. So I got my sticker and am good for another year. Greg - Thank you for the reference. I will have to think about this and will post back with comments and questions. Mike V.

Oops! Obviously you don't have to detach the axles if you leave the trans in that car. So there is a difference. Probably a good half hour of work saved in total (remove and reinstall).

OK, well we did the clutch job a few weeks ago. Learned a could of things in the process. The first thing that I think I learned is that there are not many active folks on this board with experience with this model car. So maybe there is not much interest in my tidbits about the job but anyway... Had a heck of a time separating the engine from the transmission (bell housing). Was very badly stuck on the dowell pins. Seems like it would have been easy fro Subaru to design in some provision to make this easy, but instead you are forced to get a bit primitive trying to pry the darn things apart which I hate to do. Yes, we did apply heat (plumber's torch) to the area around the dowells. The stock flywheel was indeed a two-piece design. The machinist advised me that he had to grind very slowly in order to avoid chatter because of this design. But he got the job done. We struggled with reinstallation for quite a while since the doggone turbo is just barely in the path. I finally removed the passenger side stud from the engine and we were then able to succeed. That was a breakthrough and if I had realized this earlier I would have save a bunch of sweat and frustration. The only other thing that was significantly different than other Subaru clutch jobs was that the inboard CV joints (or DOJs or whatever the correct term is) are not secured to transmission output shafts with roll pins. Instead, you just pull them out of the transmission. The output shafts, in this case, are actually part of the axle assembly. They pull out and get pushed back in (there is a circlip that springs out into a groove inside the differential). This setup is actually quicker/easier than dealing with the roll pins (which are easy enough anyway). Oh yeah, the relase bearing is not held in place with the clips that we all know and love. No clips required. Another little improvement. All the best, Mike V.

Now, before I make any comments and ask any questions, I am NOT just trying to be argumentative about this. Believe me, I have struggled with these things enough that all I am trying to do is decide which method is easiest so I can make it my standard method. So anyway, here goes: On Subarus, I have always dropped the trans to do clutch related work. As everyone knows, there is a fair amount of work inolved in doing so, but in my experience the only tricky parts of this are separating the engine from the trans (gets stuck on the dowel pins) and, upon reinstallation, aligning the trans and engine and then mating them (I work on a not so smooth driveway and I do not have a transmission jack). What I am trying to understand is how pulling the engine (and leaving the transmission in place under the car) would make either of these challenges (or the whole job) easier. Separating the engine and trans would present the same problems I would think. I guess mating them back together could be a little easier since I would not have to be trying to roll the jacks on my driveway... But, either way, you still have to detach the exhaust system and dissamble the lower ball joints from the control arms in order to detach the axles. And pulling the engine requires additional electrical (wiring) work plus you have to break into the cooling system and remove the radiator. Am I missing something that makes pulling the engine the clear choice? Thanks as always, Mike V.

Now, before I make any comments and ask any questions, I am NOT just trying to be argumentative about this. Believe me, I have struggled with these things enough that all I am trying to do is decide which method is easiest so I can make it my standard method. So anyway, here goes: On Subarus, I have always dropped the trans to do clutch related work. As everyone knows, there is a fair amount of work inolved in doing so, but in my experience the only tricky parts of this are separating the engine from the trans (gets stuck on the dowel pins) and, upon reinstallation, aligning the trans and engine and then mating them (I work on a not so smooth driveway and I do not have a transmission jack). What I am trying to understand is how pulling the engine (and leaving the transmission in place under the car) would make either of these challenges (or the whole job) easier. Separating the engine and trans would present the same problems I would think. I guess mating them back together could be a little easier since I would not have to be trying to roll the jacks on my driveway... But, either way, you still have to detach the exhaust system and dissamble the lower ball joints from the control arms in order to detach the axles. And pulling the engine requires additional electrical (wiring) work plus you have to break into the cooling system and remove the radiator. Am I missing something that makes pulling the engine the clear choice? Thanks as always, Mike V.

Taxman, Any chance you could expand on your engine handling system? I cannot picture what you are describing. Also, is this what people mean when they say they "pull the engine" instead of dropping the trans to replace the clutch? They are just moving the engine forward a few inches? And you can do this without disconnecting wiring or draining the coolant? Mike V.

1997 Legacy 2.2 Non turbo Manual Trans. MIL cam on last Friday. Code is P0170. Car runs and idles just fine. No hiccups. No smoke. Front oxygen sensor replaced about a thousand miles ago, Bosch, OEM (expensive) one. Bad timing for this since I have a PA state inspection appointment for tomorrow and won't pass the "emmissions" test if the Check Engine Light is on. Any ideas? Thanks, Mike V.

The 2010 is a different generation that the 2008? When did the change come, 2009 or 2010?

The RSD page says, says: " 2005-2009 Legacy GT requires the use of a 2006-2007 WRX flywheel for proper fitment." Rats!! That suggests that the 2010 service manual that ocei77 directed me to may not be accurate for the 2008...

Thanks O. The way we interpreted the Exedy website, the most basic (i.e. closest to OEM) clutch kit they sell for the Legacy GT Turbo includes disc, cover and release bearing but it MUST be used with their one-piece flywheel and will NOT work with the stock (two-piece) Subaru flywheel. Of course, Exedy also sells a kit that includes the above disc, cover, release bearing as well as their one-piece flywheel. Beyond that, Exedy offers higher perormance (i.e. racing) clutches and flywheels. We have ordered a standard replacement clutch kit from the local Subary dealer. I am hoping (counting on) that the flywheel can be resurfaced. The vehicle has about 75,000 miles on it. My kid told me he doesn't spool up the turbo and drop the clutch as often as he used to.

I have always wondered about whether operating conditions, such as load and engine speed (rpm) have a sifgnificant effect on the stress on the valve train components. Grossgary suggested that Dan drive lightly. Just wondering how that will help.

Gee whiz. No comments at all guys? Now I am curious - Is the Legacy GT that rare of a bird that no one has experience with them? Or was it something I said, maybe? I was hoping to get some comments here especially since there is no Haynes manual available for this car and I do not have a source for a factory service manual. Mike V.

As I mentioned on a previous thread, the clutch on my son's 2008 Legacy GT, 2.5 l turbo let go. He is currently deciding what to use for replacement parts. I recommended Exedy, but apparantly Exedy does not offer a clutch kit that can be used with the original flywheel. If you want to use an Exedy clutch, you have to buy their kit which includes a one-piece flywheel. Apparantly, the orginal flywheel in this car is two (or more?) pieces. My questions are: 1. Does the above ring true? 2. Is there any reason the "multi-piece" original flywheel would not be resurfaceable? Thanks, Mike V.

2008 Legacy GT, 2.5 Turbo - Approximately 75,000 miles - 5 speed manual This is my son's car. He told me last week that he thought the clutch slipped on him once while accelerating on the highway. He asked me if I thought we should replace the clutch immediately. I told him to drive the car and try to get the clutch to slip by putting it in a high gear and opening up the throttle. He did this and reported that it either did not slip or at least did not slip much. This is about a week ago. He lives about 75 miles away and was planning to come home for Labor Day weekend and we were going to do a brake job. Based on what he told me about the clutch behavior, I told him that it was not urgent to replace the clutch and that if he babied it he could probably easily get a thousand more miles out of it... Well, he then reported that it did slip again on him later last week but not bad. He drove it home last Friday and on Saturday we replaced all of his brake rotors and pads (REALLY nice EBC parts). Then we went out for pizza and beer. Duiring this 20 mile round trip the clutch began slipping very badly. It was near impossible to keep it from slipping if you tried to accelerate at all. He had to drive back to his house so I told him to go very gently, etc. Well, he got to about 20 miles from his house and pretty much completely lost drive. Had to get it towed the rest of the way home. I have never experienced or heard of such a rapid progression from barely starting to slip to total lack of grip. We did check for any sign of oil at the engine to bell housing interface, in case it was a leaking rear main seal but did not detect any signs of oil there. Has anyone ever experienced such a scenario or can anyone comment on this? Thanks, Mike V.

Thanks AGAIN GD. I will have to check out your flywheel holding method once I get in there. Thanks for the advice regarding the turbo to downpipe connection. That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. As it turns out, I will not be tackling this particular job this weekend so I have time to get the required gasket and hardware. I do not have an engine hoist otherwise I would seriously consider the "haul the entire power unit" approach. I hate wrestling the trans back in. I just have the car on jack stands and I have a system using three jacks, but it is still a bugger to say the least. Mike

Thanks GD. I need to keep the crank from turning when I loosen/tighten the flywheel to crankshaft screws. I ALWAYS drop the transmission to do the clutch on a Subaru. Wouldn't consider pulling the engine. Any comments about: 2. So the turbocharger and assocated plumbing will be in the way of loosening off the bell housing to engine block bolts? Meaning I will have to disconnect some of these and/or remove some of these parts? Yikes!! Exhause system work is bad enough and now it is turbo related.... Should I prepare for this by procuring any gaskets, seals or fasteners? Are there connections/fasteners that I should assume will break? Mike

Thanks for the comments guys! 1. That is quite a handsome cat! Mine's much cuter though. 2. So the turbocharger and assocated plumbig will be in the way of loosening off the bell housing to engine block bolts? Meaning I will have to disconnect some of these and/or remove some of these parts? Yikes!! Exhause system work is bad enough and now it is turbo related.... Should I prepare for this by procuring any gaskets, seals or fasteners? Are there connections/fasteners that I should assume will break? 3. I am having difficulty envisioning a "pull type clutch release lever that pulls against the pressure plate rather than pushing it". Is there someplace I can find a drawing/picture of this arrangement? 4. I was hoping not to have to resort to funny schemes for holding the crank shaft. But I can get as crude as the best of them if I must... I don't think my '92 or '97 have suitable access holes in the bell housing to hold the flywheel, but I could easily be wrong, although there must have been a reason that I invested in the special tool. 5. Any chance someone can direct me to a factory service manual (or any service manual) for this vehicle? Haynes stops at 2006. Are the clutch replacement aspects of the 2006 the same as the 2008? Thanks again! Mike V.

What are the differences in procedure for replacing a clutch on a 2008 Legacy GT with the 2.5 liter turbocharged motor compared to a 1997 Legacy wagon with a non-turbo EJ-22? Will the special tool I have for holding the cank pulley on the EJ-22 work on the '08? Thanks, Mike V.