Dogbone

I don't know how much help this will be, but I just went through the A/C system on my '91 Loyale. On my Loyale, both the trinary switch (low AND high pressure switch) and the "belt protection system" will interupt the A/C relay if there is a problem. The temperature sensor at the evaporator does not affect this relay, it only interupts the compressor's "ground". Based on what you are saying, if you have COLD air when you jump out the A/C relay engaging the compressor, it's either a problem with the locked compressor circuit, or the high/low pressure switch (or indeed, you have lost just enough refrigerant to not activate pressure switch, but still enough to blow cold). Put a gauge on your A/C system, even a cheap one. When the system is not running, it's going to be the same pressure on both high and low side, so don't fret it, nothing is going to blow up (but wear gloves b/c escaping refrigerant can cause frostbite). A static system, you'll want to see (I'm guessing for your year/model) at least 60 or 70 pounds. When the compressor is running, you'll want to see something in the neighborhood of 30 to 40 pounds on the low side. Don't worry about the high side, but FYI it typically runs 2 to 3 times whatever is the low side pressure. And just to add, I had the same issue you are describing on my Loyale. Turned out my "belt protection sensor" was bad. I simply bypassed it by splicing two wires behind my glovebox. Details at the bottom of this thread: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=123814 Good luck.

Are you using stock 13" rims? I recently went with the largest diameter I could find locally and consistently. 185/70 r13 All three of the tire dealers I typically deal with and trust recommended the Kumho Solus for my Loyale (probably because 13" is not very popular), so that's what I purchased. Purely for highway use though. Here is my Loyale wearing those Kumho tires: If you are runing 14" rims you may be able to find a reasonably available tire size that squeezes a little more meat under the fenders.

Thermostats are pretty cheap insurance. Just thought of this, your radiator cap may be worn out. If it's not holding pressure, it could lead to symptoms like you are describing. They are also cheap insurance.

My first guess, you have an air bubble in the coolant system and you need to "burp" it and top it off the coolant. Search these forums to find the proper procedure, but basically park on a hill or on ramps, and massage all the air from the radiator hoses. A new thermostat may be in order as well. How is your coolant level holding? Your radiator or another hose could be leaking. Otherwise with that said, I drive my '91 Loyale daily over a 2,300 foot high mountain pass, and going uphill on a hot summer day, with the A/C going, the temp gauge does climb to at least 3/4 or more (never gets fully to the the "H" though). These cars really only had "adequate" cooling to begin with when they were new. Put 20 or so years of age and use, and even a minor issue often becomes a real problem. Good luck.

Welcome to the forum! My daily driver and current project is my '91 Subaru Loyale. However, my "other" project is my 1973 Plymouth Gold Duster. My wife's grandmother was the original owner, and as as much as I like muscle cars, this one is destined to remain stock, slant six, A/C, and all. Past projects, I briefly owned and played with a 1990 Dodge turbo caravan , and as a teenager my father, older brothers and myself built and restored classic Mustangs. When I was 17 I had a 1966 fastback w/ a 289 "K code" hi-po and 4 speed toploader that was WAY too much car for a high schooler. Wish I still had that one. Anyway, no need to worry, it's all good. Best Subaru forum on the net!

I really like the local shops and mechanics I currently deal with. I really do. But I admit, they simply aren't "Subaru" savy. And they don't seem to understand my passionate desire to keep and maintain my '91 Loyale as long as possible, or that it's mild "tick of death" doesn't mean the engine is about to blow up in a fiery explosion, or why I am adamant about leaving the timing belt covers off, or why I don't mind "dumping" money in such an old vehicle. Sigh. So, is there a Subaru mechanic or independent shop near Charlottesville Virginia that anybody can recommend?

Specifically, you'd either have to consult a shop manual or dissect a system from a donor vehicle or pick the brain of an expert. But generally speaking, the compressor is "told" to engage when you push the A/C button on your dash. This activates a relay that closes, which sends 12volts to your A/C compressor clutch. In series with this particular circuit to your A/C clutch is typically a high and low pressure switch (on my Loyale it this is combined as one switch called a "trinary switch") that will open, disengaging the clutch, when either your refrigerant charge is too low or too high. Also in series with your A/C clutch 12 volt circuit is a temperature sensor that will open when it detects your evaporator is too cold. This prevents the evaporator from freezing, and is responsible for the normal COMPRESSOR CYCLING that occurs during normal operation. The real experts will have to answer this one. No. Despite what rumors you may or may not have heard, an R12 system will not explode or warp time during 134a conversions. The biggest concern is the oil in the system, the oil that lubricates the compressor's moving parts. In your A/C system, this oil needs to be in suspension in the refrigerant to circulate and keep the compressor lubricated and happy. R12 systems use mineral oil. R134a systems use PAG oil. Mineral oil will NOT combine with R134a, and therefore will not lubricate the compressor properly. The oil will typically puddle in a low point, and the compressor will eventually oil starve and fail. Evacuate the system, and put in the proper amount of PAG oil, and you will be fine. As well, you'll want to replace your drier, and put in the green R134a o-rings at the hose connections, and of course the R134a fittings on your charging valves. Good luck.

Welcome to the forum. As far as I'm concerned it is the last word in all things Subaru. Lots of love for NC. My family vacations at the Outer Banks every year. I'm relatively new to the Sube world myself. Bought my '91 Loyale last year as my daily driver, since my route to and from work involves crossing Skyline Drive in the Blue Ridge mountains. Needless to say it can get interesting when it snows, and how my Loyale performed last winter is nothing short of incredible. Good luck with your '86, you're at the right place.

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For what you are wanting to do, do not worry too much if the system you are looking at in the junkyard it has been converted or not. You'll want to put new o-rings and gaskets anyway, and probably replace the drier. The BIG issue surrounding conversion is the oil. R12 oil is NOT compatible with R134a refrigerant. In an AC system, the oil must be in suspension in the refrigerant to circulate and lubricate the compressor. In the old R12 systems, this oil is mineral based. However, with a R134a system, mineral oil will not combine with the refrigerant, causing it to puddle, and the compressor will eventually oil starve and fail. R134a systems use PAG oil. So for conversions, the main thing is to evacuate the system of the old mineral oil, which you'd do anyway, replace the drier and o-rings and gaskets, and fill it with appropriate amount of PAG oil and charge with R134a. The hard part, already mentioned, is retrofitting the evaporator and controls. A lot of work, but it can be done. Good luck.

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Fixed the missing lumbar handle on my '91 Loyale's driver seat. Also enjoying letting both my sons learn how to drive a manual with the Sube, the little car is taking the abuse like a champ!

The sound you hear is probably the AC relay engaging, on passenger side by firewall. 100 psi is rather high for static pressure, but system should still be cooling if/when the compressor is running. I like to see at least 40 psi on low side while compressor is running. Regardless, to know if the compressor is actually moving refrigerant, you definitely need to see the pressure drop from 100 psi to something closer to 40 psi on the "low side" when the compressor is running. It has already been mentioned, 100 psi "static" is higher than would be expected, so it sounds like you have plenty of refrigerant. I'm confused on what is really happening with the refrigerant when your compressor is running. Not the same. The belt protection system at that plug is looking for a "pulse" from the compressor sensor, and this pulse is sent to the computer located behind the glove box. So jumpering it out the compressor plug you mentioned will only give a solid 12 volts to the computer, which I assume the computer will interpret as a locked compressor. No good. The simplest point that I came up with, and the one I recommend, is the one I originally mentioned above. Again, if you unplug the computer plug at that point, before you commit to spicing anything, turn the AC on and simply take a jumper between the Red/Green and Red/Black wires and see if then the compressor engages. If it compressor engages, you know the Belt Protection is the problem. If the compressor doesn't engage, you have another issue. But the bottom line, if you hotwire the compressor, and the clutch engages and the compressor is pumping refrigerant, you should be blowing cold air. Start with this before you worry about any other electrical gremlins.

Congrats on the Subaru! Looks like you're already off and running getting it road worthy. The lack of power? Nah, that's part of the charm! The oil pressure is pretty low on these cars, especially after they warm up. My '91 Loyale usually hovers around zero psi once it's warmed up. Does it tick loudly from the lifters? If so, then cam seals and the "mickey mouse" seal behind oil pump will probably take care of it. If not, I wouldn't worry too much about the oil pump. At least until you're in there anyway (timing belts - hint hint). Does your A/C work? Again, congrats.

Yeah, I still have my '91 Loyale owner's manual, it says 10w30 for most applications, 5w30 for 30 degrees F and below. The guy I bought it from ran 5w30 synthetic for years, figured I'd keep using what works.

Just wanted to thank everyone again for their advice and give a brief update on owning my first Subaru and having it on the road for 8 months now, and how WELL it got me through winter. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I did cave in and let my mechanic replace the clutch, and I also let him replace the right front wheel bearing that began making noise, and I also got the valve cover gaskets replaced. Still on the engine agenda is new timing belts, (including timing belt cover removal), new cam and crank seals, and new oil pump. I wired in an older JVC stereo with a tape player I had lying around, that ironically is now quite functional since I also had lying around an old fashioned "cd to tape player" adapter, that I now plug into my cellphone that contains over 8GB of my favorite music. Where I live in Virginia, just north of Charlottesville, we missed most of the dramatic snowfalls that either hit the northeast above us, or even the more southern parts of Virginia, but we did have a few significant accumulations, and how nice it was to not only have a vehicle that was good in the snow, but I found myself actually wanting it to snow just to go out and play! I watched in amusement many times this past winter as the many rear wheel drive BMWs and Volvos that are popular in C'ville did their graceful ice dances, and I simply went when where I needed to go without any drama whatsoever. And this was with tires very much past their prime. In early Spring I put on 4 new tires, but this was after the last snowfall so I didn't get to see how well my Loyale could really do in the white stuff. So last month I went through the A/C and got it functional again mainly by bypassing the "Belt Protection System". The last few weeks here in Virginia, with temps in the upper 90F's and heat index at over 105F, it was quite pleasant to cruise around enjoying the ice cold air blowing in my little 20 year old Subie. Anyway, thanks again for making this such a useful forum for Subaru owners!

Running on 10 percent ethanol gas which is about all I can find where I live, I average 28 mpg in mixed town/highway driving in my '91 4wd Loyale wagon w/ manual trans. Maybe 1 mpg or less on average if I'm running A/C. FWIW, I currently run 5w30 synthetic oil (10w30 synthetic in winter months). [Edit: fixed mistake in oil viscosity].

I got my Loyale's formerly non-functional A/C working great recently, so maybe I can help. The "low pressure switch" is technically called the Trinary Switch. It is located on the passenger side of the engine bay, plugged in near the condensor. It is the round plug with four wires. How it works is somewhat complex. It has two sets of contacts. One set of contacts, the set that controls the A/C relay (and ultimately controls the compressor), will open when EITHER the refrigerant pressure is too low OR too high. When the refrigerant is at proper pressure these contacts are closed. [Edit: The wires going to this set of contacts are the Black/White and Red/White ones] The other pair of contacts simply control the condensor fan, and will close when it detects a certain amount of pressure (cooling load) in the condensor, and open when there is not much pressure (cooling load). This simply prevents unneccessary operation of the condensor fan, such as when the car is moving at 55 mph on a mild day and there is already plenty of airflow through the condensor. This pair of contacts does not electrically affect compressor operation. It's dark outside now, and I can't remember the colors offhand, but with the ignition switch on you can unplug this plug, and use a piece of wire to jump between the pairs. One pair will cause your condensor fan to run when jumpered, the other pair you will then know is for activating the A/C compressor relay. Knowing this you can then use this to rule out a switch issue, a pressure issue, or a compressor issue. [Edit: I checked this morning, the Black/White and Red/White wires go to the A/C relay, jumper these out to bypass the pressure switch to check/troubleshoot compressor operation. The other two wires ( Green and Blue?) go to the Condensor Fan.] The infamous "Belt Protection System" is the rotation sensor you see mounted on top of your A/C compressor. This shuts down the A/C compressor if it detects a difference between engine RPM and compressor RPM. Assuming the sensor is still working, you can maintain very tight accessory belt tension, perform frequent accessory belt changes, keep the sensor 3mm from the compressor, keep your fingers crossed, and MAYBE this finiky system will work. Otherwise, you can do what I did, and bypass it. To bypass the "Belt Protection System", first look at this link: http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/pdf/engine/ljac.pdf And pay attention to the SECOND page, the one with the six pin plug. This plug is located inside your car, right behind the glove compartment. Open your glove compartment door, pinch the tabs so it literally opens all the way to the floor, and you will see this plug. Pins 5 an 6, colored Red/Green and Red/Black, these are the A/C relay ground, and are the circuit that the computer opens if it detects mismatched RPM. To bypass this, simply cut these two wires and splice them together (for mere testing of course, simply use a wire jumper between pins 5 and 6). And note, the operation of the thermal switch for the evaporator is not affected by doing this modification, it will still open and close to allow your A/C compressor to cycle properly, to prevent the evaporator from freezing. This modification merely bypasses the "Belt Protection System". Edit: Here is a snapshot of my modification. This shot is looking right behind the glove box. Notice how I cut the two wires and put male/female plugs on them and just plugged them together (the blue plug on the right). Also for grins I put female/male plugs back on the old wires (blue plugs dangling on the left), so in the unlikely even I want to restore the original circuit I can simply plug everything back together. So a few questions, when you hotwire your compressor, does the clutch engage allowing the compressor to turn? And if so, do you have cold air blowing out of the vents? If not, this is where to start. When the compressor is turning and blower fan on, you should have cold air blowing from the vents. From what you are describing, 100 psi on both high and low sides (I assume this is while the compressor is turning) it is either a blockage or a mechanical failure of the compressor. Hope some of this is helpful.

Welcome to the board! Fellow Loyale fan here, new to me '91 4wd 5MT wagon (my first Subaru as well). Wow, that's a beautiful Loyale. Looks sharp. How's the interior? Have any interior pics?

New thermostat in my '91 Loyale. Now I've got heat even when I'm going down the mountain.

Do a search on "tick of death". But don't let the name fool you, it's usually nothing "fatal", and engines that tick can and do continue to run for a long, long time. The ticking on these EA82 engines tends to come from the hydraulic lifters not having enough oil pressure to keep them fully pumped up. This is often caused from air getting sucked in the oil system and aerating the oil. This typically can be fixed by pulling the oil pump and replacing the "mickey mouse" seal, which is typically dry and hard and no longer providing a good seal. And there are two bolts on the back of the oil pump that sometimes work loose, and will allow air to be sucked in the oil as well. If you pull the oil pump, make sure these are tight as well. And of course, if the cam oil seals are dry and leaking, it would be wise to replace these as well. This really goes for any major oil leaks, but the oil pump seals and cam seals seem to be the worse culprits for the tick of death. Basically, get your oil system sealed up, and the ticking should go away. This is assuming the lifters have not gotten gummed up to the point where they are "stuck", in which you can either try to flush the system out with Seafoam or Marvel Mystery Oil or transmission fluid. Otherwise unfortunately you'd have to pull the lifters out and physically clean or replace them. :-\ Being that you indicated the ticking stops when you hit 3K rpm, it sounds like the lifters are not stuck, and instead are just not seeing sufficient oil pressure. Some folks do a flush and try running a thicker oil and seem to have success, but if your oil system is leaking, the proper fix is to seal up what needs to be sealed. Especially if you are wanting to Rallycross your Subaru. Hope this is helpful. Welcome to the forum!

I'm new to Subarus and USMB myself, but let me welcome you just the same. Regardless, I used to play around with FWD Mopars, and I will say if motor mounts are indeed broken or damaged and this allows the engine and transaxle to rock or become misaligned, it can indeed cause premature CV joint failure. I can only assume the same would be true for Subarus. I hope someone with more experience will chime in, but sounds to me in replacing the axles, your mechanic may have well knocked loose a wire from a tranny sending unit or something. Maybe worth it to you to get a Haynes manual or Subaru service manual or similar, study the location of the temp sending unit, and get under the vehicle yourself to give it a once over. Check for damaged or loose wiring around the transmission, and make sure your cooling lines from the transmission to the radiator are in tact, and not kinked as well. It may be something real simple. Good luck.

I hear you. However, I really had zero interest in ditching the EA82 in my Loyale anytime soon, since other than the slightly sewing machine sound the car runs like a top. Tonight I was reading the excellent .pdf file on the EJ conversion, but pretty much lost interest when I got to the "ditch the A/C" part. :-\ But speaking of projects, here's a question for your Legacy gurus! I found a pretty nice '98 Legacy GT, 2.5 (I think?) liter with blown/leaking head gasket, I can get real cheap. Will the 2.2 from the early Legacy drop in that car with minimal fuss? If so, I may have found my answer. Thanks again for all your helpful advice.

Thanks for all the replies. I was offered this Legacy because I put the word out locally that I was looking for a cheap/free donor wagon for my Loyale for a backup EA82 motor and parts and some interior pieces. Of course as mentioned, being a Legacy nothing fits. Thanks for the suggestions regarding the motor. I am most interested in saving it, as I understand it was relatively low mileage (@ 100 k) when the car was parked, and as I learn more about Subarus I understand the 2.2 was (is) highly regarded. Thinking out loud at this point, I DO intend to purchase another Subaru or two in the next few years, as my oldest son is in college and will either be commuting or be relocating, and youngest son will be driving age next year. Most likely candidates, older model AWD Legacy or Imprezza, so a backup engine/car is not the worst idea I suppose??? But am I just really trying to justify having another "project"? :-\ Worst case, I get the car to the house, and decide not to keep it or do anything with it. If that happens it seems there are at least one or two local USMB members in Virginia that may want it, so maybe it wouldn't decorate my yard too long. Good point about the title, I'll be sure to ask for it. Thanks again for the replies. I'll post an update if I get it.