cj7135

IMO, you got a lucky one. I have an EJ22 swap, the engine has almost 270,000, and has yet to need a HG. Only things changed are the spark plugs and timing belt. I like the extra power the EJ25 offers, but they're more suitable for somebody who floats to work and goes out of town once or twice a year, or people who like to change engines. I think a lot of the EJ22 fans like to wind out the engine a lot, because they really can howl and never break. My EJ22 has been at redline at least twice a day for the last 10 years, and it still hums like its new, and that doesn't include my road trips, which would bring it to the redline an average of 50 times a trip if i had to guess. The Phase II (99 and later) EJ25's with SOHC use different materials in making the headgaskets I believe. Subaru tuned into the problem, and modified both the heads and the gaskets for the new engine. That is what i'm told tho, i didn't design them so I can't say that's what it is for sure. I will tell you that i've gotten over 350,000km on a phase II EJ25 with no HG issues. I was either lucky or Subaru did something.

I don't hate the motor. It's just the worst one that Subaru made, i'd still rather have it than a 2.2 Ecotec I also agree with you about the fuel mileage. For putting around town I find its better, but we live in a town where you dont go over 30 km/hr. At highway speed I feel like I have to wind out the 2.2 for a real long time to get around another car, and MUST burn lots more fuel as a result.

I went out to make sure the transmission is still there, and it dawned on me! It's a Phase I! At least i'm pretty sure it is. I completely forgot that the forester was a 98 (same reason I couldn't use the rebuilt EJ25D for my 99). I'm assuming the 98 Forester tranny will work in the 97 OBW? Sorry i can't help u out. If you're in the market for a complete 99 Forester I have a complete truck for sale, manual trans tho. All it needs is a clutch and I already bought it. Anybody that's willing to trailer it from Kirkland Lake Ontario is more than welcome to it for 300$ (complete). The engine also needs a sensor (never tried to figure out which one). Body has 475,000 on it, and the engine/tranny are used but I have no clue how many miles on them. Hoping I can use the 98 Fozzie trans on my 97 OBW tho. If anybody can tell me its a direct bolt-in/plug 'n play you would make my day.

Mounts are optional, water pump if you must make sure it goes forever.. You might also want to do crank and cam seals. IMHO, i would just slap it in with new timing (make sure u get the idlers and tensioner), and a new set of plugs if there is nothing wrong with it.. Check for oil and antifreeze around head gaskets/valve covers. Check around the cam shafts when you do the timing to make sure u dont need cam seals. Then i'd just run it. It might last you 20,000 or it might last you 200,000, but I've seen people spend loads of money doing all the gaskets and seals, and they throw a bearing a month later. If you want a new motor, buy one or do a rebuild, otherwise these motors are pretty cheap to buy and very easy to install. If you're paying too much for the swaps, find a cheaper more honest mechanic. Other option is the '02 engine, which I have no clue if you can use it or not (i think you can, but i wouldn't take my word for it). The only issues i know of going between auto and manual is the flywheel, and sometimes theres a belt guide for the timing belt on the manuals. Somebody will have to elaborate on this swap, but i think it would be your best bet. I wouldn't go spending loads of time and money on that old engine, as I've seen them go 300,000 no problem.:cool:

Another thing you want to watch, and this may or may not be true for you, is that the battery is the right size, and that the terminals don't touch the hood when its down. Another issue I had with charging was when my hood prop-rod worked its way over to the alternator connector (since the clip to hold it is broken) and literally exploded. Thankfully my main 100A fuse went before the truck did :-\ Not that this happened to you, but these are the kinds of problems you should be looking around your car for.

Im not familiar with Subarus of that era, but I have dealt with lots of other aged electrical issues. My first guess would be the regulator, since the battery light sometimes come on from overcharging the battery, and if it's stuck open, it can damage the battery and the alternator, and cause funky electrical issues (including fires). First step in diagnosing any electrical problem is changing the alternator and regulator. Its cheap, easy to change, and if it doesn't fix the problem, you can clean it up and return it to the store! Get one with a warranty, you'll be here thanking me in a year or so

Haha, love that car. Never had one that generation, but I could only imagine it's granny's grocery wagon on steroids!

I'm glad you found the 96 OBW 5MT 2.2, as that is what I would have suggested to you. You now have an OBDII, manual, non-intereference EJ22, which IMHO is the best combination possible. The outback makes it a nice ride height. I do want to point one other thing out for others that like doing plug 'n play swaps looking for a similar setup. The truth is that you can take any 97-98 EJ 22 and drop it in a pre-'00 Outback (correct me if it doesn't include the 95 but I think it does). The reason you would want to consider using the later EJ22 is due to the upgrades Subaru designed it with. Lower friction on pistons and in the heads, and the pistons are coated with Molybdenum, increasing their service life. The engine components are lighter, and they use solid valve adjusters. So what do you get from all this? More power (about 10%)! and More reliability! What's the downside? Interference engine! So my IDEAL setup for somebody living in the city that would rather have and auto tranny (I know, I wouldn't want one either, but lots of people do) is a 97 OBW with EJ22 swap. All you have to do for the swap is bend the power steering lines in another direction. If u want manual, get a 96 with 2.2, then if you end up needing an engine (unlikely, it's a good motor), swap for later EJ22, and make sure you change the timing belt, tensioner, and idlers at 100,000. That's just my 2 cents.

Well that is somewhat true, with the updated headgaskets, your chances of leaks are diminshed to a normal EJ engine. You mentioned it, and you're absolutely right when you say "done properly," since I've seen the EJ25D's leak 10,000km after re-installation with either wrong gaskets, or wrong mechanic. I STILL believe your overall reliability will be better AND cheaper with an EJ22 swap. I've done lots of those and have never had regrets. I always regret buying or installing the EJ25's. Just my experience though.

Thank you for confirming. I'm pretty sure that every engine produced 97 and later was interference. Subaru re-designed the heads and pistons to reduce friction and weight. The end result was an interference engine, but if you change your timing belt AND YOUR IDLERS/TENSIONER, that should never be a problem. Timing belt is a quick and cheap job, and only needs to be done every 160,000km (100,000 miles). Spend the extra 100$ for the idlers and tensioner (plus 50 for the belt on ebay) and it ends up being cheap insurance, considering your next change will be at 320,000km! So bottom line, change your timing or change your engine.

Agreed, the EJ25D is the worst Subaru engine in common use today. You are, as Suba9792 said, guaranteed to have HG problems again. The design of the heads is what makes these motors junk. Unless you have loads of cash laying around and will miss a few extra horses, swap an EJ22. The only issue you will have with that swap is you will have to bend the Power Steering lines to fit the pump (assuming you're using the pump on the EJ22). Other than that, it will plug right in, and you're on your way for as long, if not longer, as the brand new EJ25D. This of course is assuming your starting with an EJ25D. If your starting with something else, find a whole different swap all together.

The '00 Outbacks have EJ251 SOHC from factory. It would not be a swap, so yes he could put the EJ25 SOHC Phase II into his '00 Outback. The opposite is true in that you can't put any Phase I EJ25 into it, you wouldn't want to anwayz its a terrible engine.

Yes i've used the same technique on my OBW. Use the car's weight to push up (using the jack) and then hammer down the control arm. My biggest problem was snapping the head off the BJ bolt. Took a lot of heat, a sledge hammer, and a very trusting friend with a punch to get that **** sucker out. My EJ22 swap was MUCH easier on the nerves than that ball joint job!

Did you remove the Torque Converter to Flexplate bolts (using the plug on the back of the engine) when you took the engine out? If you pulled the T/C with the engine, you almost certainly damaged the seal, which would affect the stall and pressure within the T/C. If not, did you ever run the trans without fluid in it? (Some people say to run it dry to get the extra fluid out, but BAD idea). Usually fluid from the bell-housing means you'll be taking the engine out again. Do the stall test, see what happens. If i had to guess you will be replacing either the T/C, the seals, the pump, or if you've really fried it then a combination of those. You may want to consider another tranny, depending on the mileage of the one you currently have. If you have the facilities and time, i'd take the engine out and start with the seals. Never remove the T/C from the trans unless you have to, remove the flexplate first! Another solution is magic in a bottle (also known as Lucas Transmission Fix). It's supposed to fix seals and pressure problems, but this is a temporary (and certainly not guaranteed) solution, and should only be used as a last resort.

Thanks! Sometimes I'm in the mood to screw around with wires, but up here in the freezing cold I think I might sell or trade it. Thanks for the answer

I like phase II 2.5's. They're reliable and powerful. What did you "blow" on it?

I dont wanna barge in here with my 11 posts contradicting the experts, but I was 99% sure that 97 EJ22s ARE interference engines. I dropped one into my 97 OBW (as I also thought it was non-interference) but was told otherwise by a few reliable sources. As far as swapping an EJ25 into an EJ22, would not suggest it. Like is said, i threw an EJ22 into my OBW, and the power difference (although noticeable) is merely a small inconvenience. For the amount of work, and the loss of reliability, i would say NO. If you guys like changing engines for fun, the do whatever you want, but if reliability is the wildcard, stick with the EJ22 that runs good. If you guys are doing Turbo swaps, then disregard my rant about the EJ25, I'm just letting you know it is an extremely unreliable motor if you compare it to the EJ22 of that era.

You may also need the exhaust manifold from the other vehicle. Can't guarantee you will or wont, but I think the EJ25D is dual-port exhaust on each head whereas EJ22s are usually single-port (or vice-versa, not sure). I wouldn't rely on an EJ22 that's that old any more than an EJ25D with new head gaskets. Unless the EJ22 has under 100,000, and even then you are chancing HG, waterpump, bearing failure. If you have to take the EJ25D out of the Forester anywayz, you might as well do the headgaskets and put it back in. I wouldn't worry about bearings and such, since mine lasted 400,000 and there's still no issues. 90% of the work with HG's is removing the engine, once you have the engine out, there should be minimal charge for the gaskets and installing them. I would do it for you for under 150$, but i live in Northern Canada. Im not saying don't do an EJ22 swap, I'm just saying that any engine can have HG failure, and as far as costs go, you may want to consider making that EJ25D last another 150,000 or so by doing the gaskets. Also do your seals, wp, and timing, and your EJ25D will practically be new (less the bearings and rings). I would suggest to do those anyways if you were gonna swap the 2.2. Also, your Fozzie will have all the power it needs. If you don't mind me asking, what's the mileage on the 25D and 22?

Hey there, I'm new here but have had lots of Subaru experiences that hopefully I can share, but one thing I have steered clear of is Automatic Transmissions. I hate them. I have no clue how they work, they seem to defy the laws of physics, and as far as Suabrus go, the laws of AT lifespan. They are the only thing that can stand in my way, as far as my 97 Outback is concerned. Anywayz, that being said I'd like to know if anybody has real experience trying to put a 4EAT from a 99 Forester Phase II into a 97 Legacy Phase I. I have a prefectly good tranny sitting here from my old Fozzie parts truck, and I just happen to need one for my 97 Outback. The Outback has an EJ22 swap from a 97 legacy wagon (which was as easy as changing the brakes BTW). Everything is a bolt-up, plug 'n play swap so i assume the engine will not be an issue. Only issue I can see is the mounting, axle alignment, and wiring/tcu. I'm not interested in speculation, as we all feel good ranting about how we "think" things work, I'd just like to know if anybody can tell me "yes, i've seen it done and there were no problems" or "yes, i've seen it done and these are the problems you would encounter. Thanks in advance

Great, good to know. Now I just have to worry about my new (used, but for 2 weeks only) Goodyear Nordic Studded tires 215/70/15. Crossing my fingers that there are no rubbing issues, especially since my suspension is a little mushy.

Great thanks! I'm gonna get mine done tomorrow!

Hey i know this is an old thread but was wondering if it worked out or not.. i'm going to have mine put on very soon.. hope to not find out the hard way. thanks

I tried to put 14's from a 93 legacy turbo on my 97 OBW no luck. I'm hoping my 96 legacy 15" rims will clear the caliper... Otherwise i'll have no rims

hahaha... i remove my check engine bulbs all the time... I personally dont agree that a bad rear O2 sensor is more dangerous than a beaming yellow light into my retina in the pitch dark while i'm going 100 passing a transport. Mind you when i sell them i ALWAYS either re-install the light, or inform the person i'm selling it to that it has been removed.