yarikoptic

Congratulations! Do you remember by any chance what part is actually longer? Was it longer simply due to 'deeper' sitting due to excessive removal of air from within the boots? I just wonder. In my case: vibration got not as prominent but seems to be present at strong acceleration at any speed. I tried to get one day to the propellershaft, but due to rusty bolts connecting middle pipe and rear catalytic, I decided first to get a fresh gasket + 2 bolts and then simply cut old ones in half... but I put more and more doubt that it is a driveshaft -- the fact that vibration is the same with FWD mode (when no torque applied) and that it is only at acceleration (when problematic part is experiencing the load) - it is imho in frontal part but since I changed 1 CV axleand vibration wasn't gone and replaced another one with the one I removed first, unless both of them are bad, problem shouldn't have persisted... so I just don't know what to do and I am driving it as is until the problem becomes prominent and obvious.

Anyone would recommend a reliable and reasonably priced window tinter in central/north Jersey -- it gets sunnier day after day? Any recommendations on film so I could select the service guy by looking at what film he is using?

Good call -- but unfortunately we released the pedal right after the boom... and then after a min or two, when gas pedal was depressed again -- it did the same. but it kinda makes sense. Weird behavior though...

Well -- as for vibration -- I've replaced left half shaft -- vibration remain there... then I replaced right one with the one from the left -- nothing got changed. So, probably both of them are not good.... on the other hand -- I found that left differential stub (with a circlip at the end) was a bit easy imho to pull out. I think I've mentioned that in the previous email. But I guess for the vibration, I better check the driveshaft first of all.

yes - I did ;-) Sorry that I didn't include a link in the post: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=72752 tires-vibration comes back as well... crappy tires... grr... but 20-30 mph one seems to be smth else Indeed - I should take the driveshaft off... heh heh - need to wait for warmer weather ;-)

To diagnose my vibration problem I found a friend with a shop and a lift, but whenever we lifted my subi, and started it up, on a slight acceleration car did "BOOM"... Without touching gas pedal front wheels are rotating and from rear ones I think just 1 was spining a bit... So was that BOOM due to high clearance of outback so whenever it got raised and wheels go down as much as they could, CV joints can't accomodate that much of an angle any more? whenever front was lifted, and I was working on changing CV shaft, I could easily spin the wheels... so my guess would be that BOOM due to rear CV joints getting stuck due to much of an angle... am I correct? is there an easy and common way on how to "run" Outbacks while they are lifted? may be I could compress the coilovers on the back a bit (I guess there should be some clearance to get those spring compressors on the back coilovers...)? or may be some other nice way? I remember my 95 legacy had no problem spinning its wheels while in the air ;-)

Changed right CV today - vibration is still there and now (not due to CV changed but just due to evolution of the problem) I think that I can feel the same vibration (it feels in the stearing wheel and I think gas pedal) on higher speeds (>50mph) whenever I accelerate or put load on the car (going uphill). During inspection of the driveshaft and found few possible participants of the vibration I feel: 1. center bearing. Service manual says but I don't see anywhere what is normal free play in this case since there is a rubber "housing" for the bearing (if I got it right) which is there to absorb vibration (should there be any). I found it quite loose imho - I could move propeller shaft any way for a centimeter or so without any heavy resistance -- I would guess it could have been harder. So, how hard (resistant) it should be? 2. U-joint and that shaft insert/knob on transmission side. IMHO (I don't know how hard those should be either) transmission was also easy to move on its "mounts" - I have tried to push/pull up-down u-joint at the transmission side and there was some free play but I could not really assess if it is whole transmission going up/down or there is also some considerable free play on propeller shaft u-joint part. Those weak aborbers (either AT mounts or central bearing one) would go along with my story: they are harder when cold I guess, that is why I don't feel it while car is cold and also it points more to AT mounts, since then even in FWD mode vibration is the same -- then it might pass to propeller shaft and get not properly aborbed by the central bearing rubber housing I guess, the easiest to finally diagnose the problem, would be to go to some shop so they raise the vehicle and start to spin at 20 mph and apply some load (brakes) to see what parts start to vibrate enough to sense it in the body, and then look for a "bad cow"

Following your recommendation in other thread, late in the night I've emailed http://www.driveshaftshop.com/ asking about my propeller shaft and very next morning I got a reply So it seems I am doomed to check propeller shaft... hopefully the bolts on exhaust are not too rusty so I will be able to take it off. Also I am surprised that service manual doesn't say that I would need to change any gasket on the exhaust flangers if I take it apart...

Brr... so you have (had) a problem of vibration or a tore CV boot? ;-) I guess, vibration was gone with changing of tires, and now you are to replace CV. Was you vibration also at low speeds and acceleration dependent?

I really hope that it is not what is happening since otherwise I guess I will need to change whole driveshaft and that will be costly I guess.. well - engine vibrates at RPMs not at vehicle speed, so I think it should not be the case... may be tranmission mount though... or may be --- does subaru transmission has some weight factory-attached to compensate some vibration disballance? may be I managed to kick that off?

Right - it spins, but it should not get torque from the engine, so I am not sure should it vibrate as bad with torque applied or not applied during acceleration... Although it probably would get some 'back'-torque from rear diff on acceleration which would will also accelerate its revolutions back from the wheels... but it will be miniscular since there will be no load on driveshaft on engine's side. Also there was strong effect of reduced vibration when more people climbed in the car. I was asking them to mention the vibration and tell their unbiased feeling where it is coming from. I failed to produce the feelable vibration to them... But yes - and thanks -- indeed, I should not rule it out and check on the condition of the U-joint and its freeplay I guess, right?

Hi All Subaru People, I have a problem which I've been trying to diagnose but had no chance yet to try to fix (inclined weather conditions forbid me going under the car on the street :-/). Following the information I've collected it seems to be a right CV joint, but I can be totally wrong, so if there is anything else (my be problems in differential/AT?) which could describe my car's symptoms, please mentione them so I could check for them whenever I get under the Subi. Here is my compilation from a tiddlywiki where I keep my notes: !Problem I have a problem: you can feel vibration while accelerating at speeds 15-23 mph. Specifics: * is not present at speeds not in the mentioned range but might be linked to light 'whom-whom-whom' sounds at 35-45mph (usually after coming from highway speed down to city-speed) * occur also in FWD mode * seems to be absent while cruising (without acceleration) at the problematic speeds. * seems to be only at acceleration. I didn't feel it while going at the same speed down steep hill so the load might be similar but in opposite direction. Most pronounced at a "good" acceleration. Too fast acceleration passes range of speeds to fast to mention much of vibration ;-) * seems to be coming right under the driver seat, ie in the middle of the car, but I can't be definite about that... may be from front ;-) * seems to decrease when car is loaded (driver+2passangers). So either increased mass absorbs more of vibration (which is less probable) or may be it is indeed CV joint of which is gets in other position with car sited lower * seems to be not as prominent (or even absent) when driving not yet warmed up car * seems to don't depend on the gear (tried in 1st) !State of the mechanism and changes which didn't impact vibration: * AT was flushed recently * CV joints: ** left one was recently changed ** right one visually alright but who knows !What it is not probably * it is not tires which were balanced recently and since it occur only at acceleration. Although it might be the cause of premature tires going out of balance. Only after 400miles from previous balancing I start feeling wheel vibration at 70mph * it is not a propeller shaft/rear driveline since it occur in FWD mode (when it should not be loaded) as prominent as in AWD !What it could be * that right CV axle * Tires... [[if the radial cords in the sidewalls of a tire are not spaced evenly or are damaged, it can create a "waddle" or vibration due to force variations in the stiffness of the sidewall as the tire rotates.|http://www.aa1car.com/library/tires2.htm]] !Findings online: *[[Follow-up: Dear sirs, I have information that may be helpful to other Subaru owners. I have a 1999 Outback-limited wagon, automatic. I had what "appeared" to be an engine miss about 2800 rpm and in the speed range of 20 -30 mph that occurred on incline while accelerating. In reality, it was a vibration in the drive train. I had the vehicle checked at Wyoming Valley Motors Wilkes Barre PA. The fix was replacement of the front axles; the work was covered under Subaru warranty. This car had 46000 miles on it and the problem started at about 42000 miles. Please post this info in your column as it may help other frustrated Subaru owners. John|http://www.2carpros.com/makes/subaru1.htm]] * http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/ChaseEWAug06.pdf * http://www.aa1car.com/library/vibrations.htm * http://www.aa1car.com/library/tires2.htm

Whenever I was in the store looking for Mobil 1 for the bearing I saw two tubes of Mobil 1 -- 1 had mentioned CV joints as well in the list of applications. Otherwise I didn't spot obvious difference but since the one "with CV in the list" was the last and opened can I chose regular Mobil 1. Now I can't find online examples of the other one. Mobile 1 I have lists applications: "suspension ball joints, universal joints, steering linkages and chassis". Since our drive shafts are not based on universal joints I question application of Mobil 1 to pack them (although I found quite a few instances online where people reported packing with Mobil 1) since Mobil 1 is light (if there is any) on moly content which seems to be common for CV joints greases. The basic requirements for a CV joint grease are that it be a high-tact grease (meaning it will stay where it is placed) and that is must have lots of poly-sulfide strands, which handle pressure well (essential in CV joints) and will stay put (see first requirement). Mobil 1 synthetic grease has light tact (due to a lack of a sufficient amount of poly-sulfide) and is not suitable for CVs. So I guess I should better get a moly containing grease right away or just mix Mobil 1 with a compatible grease following the chart.

Although it is from Porche guy, but The CV joints and, by extension, the driveshafts, are usually good for many thousands of miles when properly maintained, and the only maintenance these units require, aside from replacing torn boots, is the cleaning and re-packing described above. Additionally, some drivers have chosen to swap the driveshafts left-to-right to change the direction of wear on worn CV joints, thereby doubling the effective life of the joints. Numerous listmembers have done this without any reports of ill effects. So now I am just to discover either regular Mobil 1 grease is ok for inner CV joint on Subi's half shafts (the same guy says "The basic requirements for a CV joint grease are that it be a high-tact grease (meaning it will stay where it is placed) and that is must have lots of poly-sulfide strands, which handle pressure well (essential in CV joints) and will stay put (see first requirement). Mobil 1 synthetic grease has light tact (due to a lack of a sufficient amount of poly-sulfide) and is not suitable for CVs", that is why I am wondering now)

Hi Recently I had fun changing drive shaft with a new GSP's one (made in China), so now I have a spare one (after I furnish it with new inner boot). I have also a problem of a vibration (speed dependent, occur at 15-23 mph, acceleration/load dependent, present in FWD as well) which might be related to a slight whom-whom-whom sound which is present at higher (35-45 mph) speeds. It seems (after all my reading) that most probable cause of vibration is the other side drive shaft which visually looks ok - no torn boots, no clicks, but who knows how it behaves inside. So my idea is to replace right drive shaft with its brother from the left side which now sits in the closet. Although they are of the same model, I am wondering if there is some normal wear which accumulated during 90kmiles drive life of the left CV, such that change of rotation direction might have bad consequences.... Anyone had experience swapping side of the drive shaft (getting one from the junk yard) with/without any consecutive problem?

Very mucho thank you - very informative articles -- 2nd link is the best imho. I am still wondering and aggregating the symptoms, and those pages seems to be of help! Thanks once again! just of the sake of sharing, here is my situation at the moment: I have a problem: you can feel vibration while accelerating at speeds 15-23 mph. Specifics: * seems to be coming right under the driver seat, ie in the middle of the car, but I can't be definite about that * seems to be not present at speeds not in the mentioned range * seems to don't depend on the gear (tried in 1st) * seems to be absent while cruising (without acceleration) at the problematic speeds * occur also in FWD mode * seems to be only at acceleration. I didn't feel it while going at the same speed down steep hill so the load might be similar but in opposite direction !State of the mechanism and changes which didn't impact vibration: * AT was flushed recently * CV joints: ** left one was recently changed ** right one visually alright but who knows !What it is not probably * it is not tires which were balanced recently and since it occur only at acceleration * it is not a propeller shaft/rear driveline since it occur in FWD mode (when it should not be loaded) as prominent as in AWD !What it could be * that right front CV axle... I felt that there is a bit too much of freeplay (up/down) in comparison to the tight left one I just changed. Also right CV is a bit "wet" so the differential seal seems to be not that great, although diff level seems to be staying ok * front differential (hopefully not) * anything else

I am sorry for not being clear on that -- it was front. Today I succeeded to place drive shaft onto differential stub! yeay - after a friend mechanic said that light knocking with hummer will not destroy CV joints, I just pushed it by hand from harder than I though yesterday I should, and I managed to place it far enough so I could finish placement by prying with a screwdriver in the pin hole. If I am to do that next time, I guess, I will buy a circlip to have it handy if axle shaft comes out. And since I have old CV shaft since finally I got a new drive shaft, I am ordering a replacement boot kit to make it ready to install if any front one goes bad. Next project is to figure out vibration on load at 18-25 mph ( seems to be regardless of the gear) Thanks everyone who shared their experience in this thread!

Ok, got more details finally although not that happy about them :-\ So, what has happened after we pulled axle shafts (correct name for differential stub) is that we "abused" the circlip which is a plastic o-ring like thing which is used to keep axle shafts in their 'optimal' position. according to AT-60 axle shaft can be pulled out immediately after I take off differential side retainer. But that circlip has to be installed to axle shaft and axle shaft has to be installed before oil seal and outer race (tapper roller bearing), and only then differential side retainer. ok, my summary would be, we did some harm by pulling it out but not as much as if I pulled it out more. Probably we pulled it out all the way to the seal and hopefully it didn't jump off the axle shaft. Forcing it through the seal one way or another might break it I guess and seal would start leaking. Also, probably, it would not get through the side retainer at all without taking it off.. As for the pressure on axle shaft toward inside -- I guess it then immediately 'meats' pinion shaft (due to sub-mm clearance according to the specs). Too much pressure (how much though) would bend penion shaft I guess... and that would be really a mess... So, as the 'repair' for the abused circlip (for such paranoid as me), I guess following should be done: Parts: circlip, oil seal, O-ring. Procedure (as the book writes pretty much): drain oil mark position of differential side retainer, take it off (special tool is needed or I guess some ad-hoc tool should be erected), pull the axle shaft, remove o-ring, seal, outer race of the bearing. circlip to axle shaft, place axle shaft in all the way until it seats, install outer race, install seal, install o-ring, install diff side retainer to old position and fix it. fill differential with oil For now I will just check if it axle shaft holds fine it its location or can come out too easily (ie circlip is bad now) -- if that is the case I bet I better change it following above procedure. Also if I am not able to push a drive axle on an axle shaft with not too much force, I might need to perform extraction of axle shaft to "match" it with the axle outside somehow... (need to consider that in the morning since at night it seems I get too many bad ideas) Any comments are welcome!

as always -- search - give up - ask -- find it yourself (page 12);-) silly me. now RTFM and looking for the truth ;-) any comments are welcome!

Dear All, I am trying to figure out how evil is to have 'axle drive shaft' comming out of the differential as has happened to me while changing CV and to also decide it I can apply some force to it toward the inner while placing drive shaft. The manual has description of MT front differential and a nice picture but I can't find similar one for the AT's differential, which, if I got it right. is pretty much a part of AT, and AT's internals are not described in details anywhere since noone is assumed to fix it on his own. so noone knows the true internal setup? judging from MT's picture, due to snap rings (8) thos axle drive shafts didn't have any chance to come out. Can any one shine the light onto schematics so I could decide on how much damaged I've done and (if none) how much pressure I can apply to properly sit the damn drive shaft, or may be I can simply pull out axle drive shaft (pardon the ignorance and the fact that it sounds crazy ;-)) Thanks in advance

Well, there is seems to be some normal freeplay (2-3 mm I guess)... did your also slide out about 1/2 inch (slightly more than 1cm?)

I got a torn inner boot on 2001 Outback LL Bean. Since I drove for a bit (2 weeks) in rain/snow conditions, I've decided to replace whole CV axle. First I got an aftermarket rebuilt one... whenever I got to install it I mentioned that outer joint is way too stiff and felt like there is no grease in it. Ok - I rushed to another store (Advanced Auto Parts) and got a China-made new CV which felt and looked much better (even had both sides baffle plates which rebuilt didn't have) but when we tried to sit it onto the differential stub - it didn't want to get on easily -- with each try though it kept getting a bit further (we kept pulling/prying it off and pushing it back onto differential stub). At the point when CV hub covered the pin hole on the stub and I tried to pry it out once again, differential stub went out like 10mm out. I got freaked out. So the first question: Is that normal for differential stub to go out that much? I pushed the stub back in and here is the picture (phone camera so pardon crappy quality:) - so there seems to be under 1 cm to go deeper to match the pin holes Since I got freaked out, I decided not to force it out any more, and I didn't have really a clue how to force it in and how safe is that. So 2nd question: can't I apply some pressure on the differential stub to get axle seated? how much would be safe for the differential? (I don't have a plot of differential construction to assess) I collected everything back with this axle not sited and drove in the parking deck a bit -- looked underneath but it seemed to stay in the same place and I could not push it further from underneath. Then I drove home on highway with speeds up to 80mph... there was some vibration but it was there before -- tires, which I have, go out of balance quickly also there is some vibration on acceleration (which is my next project to troubleshoot) - so I could not feel/hear something really abnormal for the car. We had 1991 legacy where we managed to lock the pin before axle even sited far enough to don't allow to do that and subi drove fine (just with some noise) for a while, so I decided to drive mine a bit with a hope that axle hub would sit further onto differential stub due to friction etc... probably I am wrong -- I will be able to look under it tomorrow. 3rd question: any suggestions on how to force that hub onto differential stub? Anyone had experience with a given replacement axle? Since due to freaking, sliding out, differential stub I am not sure if I can remove this axle now safely. If it is ok, then I could probably remove it, heat it up a bit () and try to sit back - hopefully heating it up would give me those micrometers... ?? Thanks anyone in advance for ideas

Nipper, Thank you so much for your help. All your logic follows what I thought to try before I realized that there is smth else what is weird -- my 'gear switch lever' was locked -- even if I put the key in 'On' and press brake pedal and press button on the lever - it didn't move at all... Since I saw Inhibitor switch on the way to starter, I decided to look into switch lever -- I took cover off and I saw that the solenoid, which supposedly should remove the lock after I press the brakes, doesn't do anything... Ok - I pushed it manually, shifted to Neutral and started the car! ;-) so - the problem was that inhibitor switch didn't report Parking state I guess. After I drove for a bit, and after a few of unsuccesful attempts, it finally did start to startup in 'P' position! So definetly some defrosting or warming up helped. Ok - I've got under the car and lubricated all joints on the way from the lever to AT. I didn't get inside the cable itself due to very uncomfortable access and since just lubrication of joints helped a lot in how freely I could move the lever. So I decided that it should be sufficient -- I will see for sure tomorrow morning after the car gets down to street temperature I guess what had happened on Thur -- since I stopped the car whenever it was just started, all "hard" joints forbidden inhibitor switch to arrive to P position, and it got stuck in the middle between R and P (although parking was engaged). Thanks everyone for helping me out of this ;-)

Thank you Porcupine, and sorry nipper for my rough English ;-) Just to clear things up yes that is the idea - I will try today, yesterday my lever seems to get stuck quite hard so I was afraid to force it too much without assurance that I can shift it to neutural while it wasn't running that is what I thought too and confirmed later by 'starting system electrical diagram' hm... I thought that it is a widely used English term syn to battery yeah - if I manage to start it today I better go somewhere to look underneath and clean the cable. I had similar issue on Nissan -- too much dirt got into the cable, so on cold it was barely moving. I just flushed it with WD40 and that helped for next 3 years I had the car. I meant ignition key and forgotten to mention gear shift release button ;-) So it seems that I just need to go downstairs (after tiny breakfast) and see if I can get it running... btw -- what voltage can I apply to the starter's solenoid to trigger starter to crank? Where can I get it (I mean may be some other beast powered by that one) I just want to check directly to get assurance that starter itself is ok, so I could warm it up (to see if transmission switches better and may be return to its destinned location if that is the cause of no start)

My friend's Legacy had a very loud boom.... that was rear diff (believe it or not) -- it was missing oil, so whatever was there heated up and exploded in the middle of the night in the middle of texas desert (that is good that there were 3 cars total in our company so we pulled it on a rope for other 300 miles... I am not sure now why we just didn't drive it since rear diff gear went to a clear round shape by the end of the trip anyway)