Equalizer

First chance to check back today. Travmo, Sorry to hear about the terrible mileage. Surprised that my 2.5 got better than your 2.2 leg. Filled up on the way there, 16mpg. Drive like grandma. Former owner of a garage that worked on hundreds of them said that the mileage was unacceptable and first thing to do is check plugs because that's easiest. I will go to advanced auto and borrow their gen II mini-reader and see if it has code pending. I don't know if it will be the right reader, because they told me that it won't show anything if the dash trouble light doesn't light up. Then again there are a number of things guys selling parts won't know that many of you forum members have more knowledge of when it comes to that. Will check that ASAP. THANKS bstone and ocei77, I will call and mention this to him. He said something about a metal something that goes over the spindle(?). I don't have my manual in front of me, but w/try to find diagram of those parts you mentioned on line after this post. Main concern is 30 day warrantee on engine and don't want to be stuck w/a 16mpg or so engine for $1000, so I will call mechanic as soon as I check parts diagram so I can see what you are talking about and not ignorant about issue. THANKS Any other opinions about the mileage, etc? EQ

Taking car back tomorrow AM for rear mainseal replacement. Swaped out 2.5 for 2.2. Wished I did it long before, but couple issues I need help on. To clarify, the new engine is not actually new, but new for this car. Came from junk yard. My '98 OB Leg. w/ 2.5 L at 200,000Mi. threw a timing belt AGAIN! Hasn't been more that 25K mi. since the last one bent valves, etc. Tensioner was suppossedly replaced. Belt was in good shape both times. This last time, since car in good shape otherwise, I decided to go w/ a used 2.2L used replacement. Engine comes from unknown source, so taking mechanics word for it having 104,000mi. on it. Job was $1000, and car is only transportation. Its leaked oil by the half quart at a time, less than 80mi. so took it back for possible oil pan gasket. Oil pan gasket replaced w/RTV, but still leaks from back side. About 2 quarts on garage floor. Once engine warms up and pull into parking space in parking lot, its drips fast and hard. Tomorrow getting rear main seal replaced once again. Told it was replaced upon installation the other week when engine dropped in, but might have messed it up. Not missing, and power is OK, but even though driving it very conservatively, the gas mileage has gone down almost 10mpg from the lousy old 200k 2.5L engine it had! My check engine light does not show code, but not sure if its hooked up. I've been without car for nearly one month while waiting for them to do this job. Glad I got it back, but NOT as is. If I ask for another engine, I'm concerned I'll end up w/ another month and no better engine than this. It runs as smooth as expected for 100+K and haven't been able to run compression test yet because my tester is the rubber plug type and don't have help to crank it over while I hold it. However, it pulls up hills and onto hwy. better than previous 2.5. Two main questions: 1. What should be checked imediately as to why gas mileage dropped so much w/2.2 L engine? I say Imediately because 30 day warantee w/ run out soon. 2. How can I know for sure, or what is easiest way to know if computer hooked up when trouble light shows no code? Thanks alot for the help. EQ

Now to think of it, my mechanic says i'm getting some pulsing in my brakes because the front rotors are worn. Can't think of why, but does anyone know for sure if I replace the rotors that the alignment might go off some?

Guess I should be grateful they've lasted this long. Not the answer I wanted, but I guess the next time will be a possible waste of $ on alignment if my strut goes in the next 6months. It just seems that the more $ and TLc goes into the car, the more incentive to keep it a long time since I won't get anything for it. Maybe I'll keep it for my great grandkids. By then it will be a classic like a '57 Chevy. muscle car w/hood scoop and boxer "porche" engine, while everyone else is driven around robotically in electric busses.

98 Leg. OB, It just turned over to 200,000mi. and had my 2.5 replaced w/ a 2.2, got 4 new tires and plan to replace exhaust, so I plan to get by on my old "muscle car" for another year or until I can buy a near new one. The back driver side strut was bad, so I replaced it. The passenger rear and front struts seem ok and don't sag or bounce. Since I got new tires, I plan to get a 4 wheel alignment soon $85. Q: Should I go ahead and buy a rear passenger side strut and install even if it seems OK? It took me a lot more time than most would take so I cringe at the thought of getting those bolts back into place, busten knuckles, praying I can finish what I started, etc. but will do it if I REALLY SHOULD. Otherwise, I'll get it aligned and put the $ toward a new exhaust system. This is my 3rd and I really love my OBs, (except for the 2.5 head gaskets and timing belts that kept failing). Hope the 2.2 solves that issue. Appreciate educated guesses from anyone who's been there done that, or at least sounds convincing.

Unibrook, The misfire code usually comes up after only a couple of miles in the morning. The second does later on. After the first set of plug wires were replaced w/a used pair, the codes didn't come up for half an hour, or so of driving. Since then, they finally replaced the wires w/new ones. First thing I'll do guys is put insulation, probably closed cell foam, taped around the plug wires. The new set of wires are too long and touch lots of metal on the body, per Gloyal's recommendation. Why foam? I just happen to have some in stock. Log1call, Would some injector cleaner in the fuel tank clear up a lean injector? I'm asking because some subie mechanics have told me conflicting things. Some say that the injectors don't/ can't get clogged. I don't know if they are too big, or what, but wondering if good cleaner w/do the job, or what will? Guys, I'll ask the mechanic monday if he can check that O2 sensor w/a voltmeter. The thing that made me wonder if this might be due to the valves is that the two valves that were replaced were hit by the piston when the belt came off. I don't mind replacing O2 sensor, etc. if that it, of course. The work that the shop did is still under warantee and I've already spent $ on unrelated stuff that wasn't under warantee. I guess the sensor will be an easy and reliable check w/out needing to buy a new one to find out. Lastly, I can't reconcile needing to buy high 93 oct. gas for now on to keep the code from showing. One mechanic said that rather than doing another head gasket job on my existing heads, that the shop replaced it w/another set of heads off of another car. He said that because the heads are different, I might need to start buying 93 gas instead of regular. Do you guys agree, or see that this makes sense? Thanks, EQ

Hi, I recently had the heads replaced on my 98 Leg. OB (ej 2.5) after the front gears on the belts broke and threw the belt. The shop replaced the heads w/used off of another car and redid two valves that were bent. It has 160,000+ mi. on it, has been well maintained, and I'd like to hold onto it until I can find full time work. Since then, its been giving a Cylinder #1 and #2 misfire code. They happen intermittantly rather than at the same time. They replaced the plugs and the wires. It continued having the same issue. Today they replaced the wires and asked me to fill up with high test 93 octane gas and bring it in monday. If it was a gas issue after the engine work, due to say.....it being replaced w/a 96 top end, wouldn't it be giving signals on the other cylinders too? There is no trend to the codes comming on. It can happen at idle, hwy speeds, or coasting down a hill. All dry weather. It doesn't smooth it out, or have any more power w/ the higher octane on top of a quarter tank. This weekend, I'll mist the coil pack and wires in the dark to see if I get arch, (or idle drop off), but it didn't before the change, so I doubt its that. I've read some long threads on #3 & 4 misfires, etc, but still haven't come to any conclusions and need some help. Any likely possibilities/suggestions? EQ

Subaru 360 and Imdew, It sounds like you guys have done this job a time or two..... Thanks again for the details! -Frank

Thanks Imdew! Is there anything special about the 95 vintage 2.2, or will any 2.2 w/automatic tranny work? Are any mods necessary, or should it just plug right in with existing hardware? Subaru 360, I was told that they used the last generation upgraded headgaskets. IMHO, even an original HG would have held up way beyond 10,000mi. Any other possibilities? Frank

Hi Guys, (and Gals), While on the hwy one day, my engine died. It looks like the bottom pully bearing (steel one) on my timing belt seized, and a plastic gear shattered, throwing my timing belt. The mechanic replaced three gears, (another one chipped), and the timing belt. Now it idles rough, so he suspects one or more valves are bent. So far there's only $100 in it for this issue. Less than 2 years ago, (under 10,000mi.), he replaced all of the engine seals, gaskets, including leaking head gaskets, clutch, and h2o pump. I check the fluid levels, and condition at every fill up and drive like a 79 yr old widow, so I don't have any reason to think that the engine overheated. The gauge has been normal. However, there's been air bubbles in the overflow coolant tank and some coolant loss, so a head must be leaking already; otherwise I might opt for a valve job, and have them all replaced. The shop has a very good reputation and has treated me, my family and friends right over the years, and I don't blame them for the issue. I'm just trying to give some history to this engine and why I'm hessitant to throw more good money at a bad motor. That said, my options seem to be: A. Buy a used, or rebuilt (low cost) EJ 2.2 L to replace the 2.5 in my heavy Legacy Outback. Since I drive like an old widow, I might be able to deal with a weaker engine on our steep hills and traffic for a while. If I go this route, what sources can you recommend and are there any changes that need made to adapt this engine? OR B. Get a rebuilt 98 2.5 L engine and hope that the new version of head gaskets hold up better than the new version head gaskets in the existing one. I've checked prices and so far can't find anything reasonable. Open to suggestions. :-\ I need a job right now, so my only option seems to be get this car repaired, or get a cheap high mileage car in need of TLC. THANKS! Frank

Update, I had the car back in today and the mechanic said that he left the gap a little on the large side since he expected them to seat in. He said that it would be better to have a little more clearance and live with the noise, than too little since the valves would stretch longer and then he'd end up having to do the job again. He said when I take the car in next week and leave it there to have the oil changed, seal up an oil leak, and replace the power steering pump (it appears to be leaking and coming down through the front cover), that he'd check the valves if they are still noisey. eq

Porcupine, It doesn't seem to matter if the engine is warmed up or cold. It sounds the same regardless. Svxpert, It was one grand. What I'm trying to find out is: The mechanic says they were in spec. It still ticks. What is normal after this job? How can this be properly evaluated to determine if he needs to redo the valve job?

Nipper, The car has 145,000mi. and seems like its leaking rather than burning all of that oil. The leak has slowed, and they told me that the seals were replaced as I requested when they did the other work. They said they want me to leave the car there so the mechanic can tighten a loose bolt. I thought that would have been done according to spec the first time. I plan to drop it off as ASAP, on a day when they don't have to keep it for the rest of the week. As for the compression check, I've got a compression gauge. The kind with the rubber nipple that presses against the cylinder after removing the plugs. Is that what you mean by vaccume gauge? I don't believe that the pvc valve was ever replaced.

Just got my 98 Leg OB w/the 2.5 engine 145,000mi. done for major maintenance: a. Head gasket job b. All seals, O-rings c. Timing belt replaced d. Valves adjusted My main concern is that it still ticks just as loud as it did before the work. It is coming from each corner of the engine during idle and low rev. At high rev I can't hear it over the other engine noise. The mechanic said he replaced 4 worn exhaust valves, but did not adjust any intake shims as they were within spec. Its gone through 2 quarts of oil over the 500 miles since the work was done. I'm taking it in the beginning of next week for an oil change and to get the leak taken care of. The shop said its leaking from under the valve cover. QUESTIONS: What kind of work are they looking at? Should I be concerned about the ticking? If so, how should it be handled? THANKS!

Good question. I dunno.:-\ Any more suggestions about the ticking? Keep in mind this occurs long after warm up period at, or near idle. I can't hear over the rest of the engine noise at higher rpms.

I was wondering about that. The engine was already tore down and 4 valves replaced. I was just concerned that the mechanic "might" have taken a short cut which could lead to burnt valves in the future. Its under warantee for a year, but dont' want to demand something be done for something that is normal. The shop has treated me well. I have an oil leak that they say they will open up the valve cover to get to and tighten down a bolt as soon as I bring it in for a 500 mi. oil change. I'll do that search you mentioned. THANKS!

Hi Jo, I used to get this problem a LOT in an old GL. Even got to the point where I had to spend a couple hours, with an empty tank, draining the bottom of the tank of well over a quart of water. After this, I just got my gas from a different station that had a good reputation and added Dry Gas every couple of tank fulls. The only kind that I found that worked at removing h2o contained ISOPROPEL alcohol. The methanol stuff was cheaper, but just a waist of money. This time of year was always a problem, partly because of condensation because of changes in temp. At least that's my theory. That said, the car at that time had a 1.8 engine. Our newer 2.5 leg OBs have air tite gas caps and bigger engines. I never had a condensation problem with my OBs, albeit bad gas is bad gas and could cause the same problem. I don't know about the code. But if you use an additive, just make sure that the ingredients are isoprople and not methanol. Hope you get your OB back to normal. eq

Another update and question. If you didn't read the earlier posts in the thread, to get you up to speed. One of the things that I paid to have done at the same time as my head gasket job is to have the valve shims adjusted. I talked to the mechanic that actually did the work at the shop and he said that he replaced all four exhaust valves, but didn't say anything about checking clearance, or shims, other than that all of the intake shims were within specs so he left them alone. I got to drive it some this morning and when I listen under the hood, the ticking sounds just as loud as it ever did. And thats with a warm engine too. Its comming from both sides with equal volume. Can anyone think of anything else that might cause this noise? What would be your solution. I'm going to go back to the shop right now and let them know. Thanks in advance for any good suggestions. eq

UPDATE: I just got the car back and only drove a short distance so far. Talked to the mechanic who worked on it and he took me to a bench and showed me some valves. The edges were rounded. He said that he replaced all of the exhaust valves, but the intake valves were OK. He said that all of the intake valves were within spec. so he didn't have to change them. Does this sound right on a car w/145,000 miles? I drove it down the road less than a mile and it still sounded a little bit rough, and ticks. Popped the hood and could still here a tick, but the whole engine sounded different, I just can't describe how exactly. The car is suppossed to go back in for another oil change at 500 mi. to flush it out. Then good oil (my synth.) can go in. Most of my driving to here was down hill, but it seems like reasonable difference in pick up. Just not like the Forester automatic with 150,000 miles that I was driving the last couple of weeks while mine was in the shop. THAT had LOTS more zip than any other Subi w/auto tranny that I've ever test drove....with much less rpms to be honest. I noticed a little bit of steam comming up from the front while waiting at a light, after climbing a hill. I parked in a lot w/engine running and can't seem to pin-point where its comming from yet. The temp guage looks normal and the overflow tank seems like its at the same level with no bubbles. The new clutch feels a LOT more responsive. Any suggestions on how I should best do a post work evaluation? eq

Thanks for the thread Commuter. Looks like there were several mechanics on there that had lots of experience with this job; knew what they were talking about. About the labor, the engine has been out and open. All of the seals, o rings, and clutch are being done too. The owner of the shop told me at first that it wouldn't cost any more. He's been a stand up guy and is charging me for 11 hours total labor for the above work. It has 145,000mi. on it and did have a tick which quieted down a lot after an oil additive which increased the viscosity, but masked the symptom....1 qt. mystery oil, I think it was (red bottle). According to a mechanic on that link, Commuter, it sounds like All '97-99 DOHC 2.5 liter engines have solid lifters and all solid lifter engines have valve adj. by shims. I wasn't in a habit of red-lining the rpms, but there were quite a lot of times the engine over-heated/ red lined on the temp guage from coolant blowing out of the jacket from the blown head gasket. What do you all think? eq

I am having my car worked on at a local subaru garage who is doing timing belt, seals, head gasket, and clutch. I asked him to also adjust the shims as I thought was necessary at 100K intervals. Plus I was hoping this might smooth it out. My 98 Leg OB has 145K miles and thought it best since there is no additional labor charge. BTW, you probably already know its a 2.5L DOHC. He told me that this year did Not have shims, but was self adjusting hydrolic instead. I was wondering if anyone can confirm or deny this, so I can let him know before putting everything back together? Thanks! eq

No, That's what I thought at first, so I asked him again, and I was told by this guy at the store that his friends rebuilt his WRX and replaced his pistons with steel FORD pistons. Don't ask me why, I wanted to know myself and see if this would be an advisable change. I've come to the conclusion that it may do more harm than good since the garage I'm taking it to hasn't ever done that. eq

Thanks Emily, I missed that. nipper, That's what i expected too. Thanks for the confirmation.

2x2KOB, I've got a price, but am waiting to see if subiegal can get these OEM. I've been going through oil Since the head gasket blew, but prior to that, it was doing pretty good after it got used to the full synthetic 5-30. The plugs looks OK when I changed them prior to the head going, but took 5-10k (second oil change) before I had to quit adding at least half a quart per week. I guess I'm wondering if replacing rings would help at all without doing valve job, boring and replacing pistons. A non-dealer subi specialist garage will do the rings total for $225. To rebore oversize w/new rings pistons, labor would be $415 total. Plus I guess my gas mileage would drop, so I don't want to do that, but might be able to swing the rings only if it would be a significant improvement. eq

Hi, I've got a 98 Leg OB with 140,000+ miles and a couple of questions. I started out another thread, "Steel piston transplant" with this question, but thought it would be better to title this question under another title since I decided against having the engine rebored and pistons replaced. Since I added an oil additive that increases viscosity I've not had piston slap problems and so I'm guessing that the gap might not be too bad. So never mind on the rebore and pistons. HOWEVER... I plan to get some work done on my 98 Leg OB, ie. head gaskets:-\ , shims adjusted, clutch, oil seals, and timing belt. Well, here's the list. Am I forgetting anything....? Cylinder head gaskets Intake manifold Gaskets Exhaust manifold gaskets Valve cover gaskets Valve stem seals Valve cover grommets Cam Shaft half moon plugs Valve cover SP tube gaskets Cam Seals Oil Pump Seal kit Timing belt Water pump Rear main seal Thermostat oil filter NGK Platnum plugs A metal rear inspection plate 4 piece clutch kit Exhaust gaskets, donut and hardware One more Q: Would it be beneficial to replace the rings too?