Has anyone on here actually done it (I don;t mean just replace the tail section of tranny...I mean ground down those grooves etc)

 

I want to know if that is all you have to do when you take it apart

I did one fluid change...nothing...I will do two more and cross my fingers

 

Anyone had experience with the fluid solving it? I know one of you guys mentioned yes....How does this help is what I want to know,,,,what does it do that sometimes it cures it? AND...was it immmediate that the change was noticed? I don't have the car insured and did not plan to...93 legacy

if it goes away with FWD fuse the fluid additive fixes it.

if not then duty c needs replaced.

if fluid change fixes it, it will require a few and some driving - 20 miles probably for me.

 

more details all over the usmb on all different questions and scenarios.

if it goes away with FWD fuse the fluid additive fixes it.

if not then duty c needs replaced.

if fluid change fixes it, it will require a few and some driving - 20 miles probably for me.

 

more details all over the usmb on all different questions and scenarios.

 

 

Thanks Gary but...

In your first sentance are you implying that an additive will definitely fix it if (as in my case) the fuse stops the t bind??

I don;t see how that makes sense but I hope you are right LOL

I have. replaced all the clutches in there, and new transfer piston plate seal, etc.....on a turbo 4eat. there are like 2 more clutches on the turbo than a non-turbo tranny. my dutcy solenoid had failed, and it caused the transfer piston to get fubarred, and was locked. made for not so fun city driving. had to fix it. did it with tranny still in the car.

I have. replaced all the clutches in there, and new transfer piston plate seal, etc.....on a turbo 4eat. there are like 2 more clutches on the turbo than a non-turbo tranny. my dutcy solenoid had failed, and it caused the transfer piston to get fubarred, and was locked. made for not so fun city driving. had to fix it. did it with tranny still in the car.

thanks BH

what did the job entail? any snags or advice? how did you know what to replace?

if it goes away with FWD fuse the fluid additive fixes it.

if not then duty c needs replaced.

if fluid change fixes it, it will require a few and some driving - 20 miles probably for me.

 

more details all over the usmb on all different questions and scenarios.

 

 

Gary

Do you have any clue why changing the fluid could change the symptoms??

snags, a few. The wire to the connector for duty solenoid C was pretty short and came out the socket, had to fix that.

 

the thing that has grooves, i smoothed them out with emory paper and a file, just to get the high spots where it was cathcy when running finger over. You have to measure the friction after the new disks, it has to has some friction, but not stick. There are spacer washers that can be added or subtracted on top the piston. I kept mine with the same it had in it, using all new drive clutches, retaining the friction discs i believe. It has been like 5 years or so since i did this job.

Get a new seal for the rear housing to center unit. ***The parking pawl also likes to get in the way, or dislocated, upon putting back together, which means it will not shift back up into park. That was my major hangup, resulting in separating the tail shaft again to put it in place.

I would say good luck. I would do this job again, its not that bad after the first time, kinda like pulling an engine. if your parking pawl rod gets disloacated, you wont know it til you have it all back together, drop it in gear, and then go to return to park, it wont go That sucks. the pawl is the rod at the very bottom.

After reading this LINK about TB and this LINK (near the bottom) about someone else's experience, I decided to give it a go.

 

I had just replaced the transmission and the used replacement had TB and delayed AWD...took 1-2 seconds for the rear wheels to kick on any slick surface.

 

Since I still had the old 4EAT laying(lying?) around, I pulled the rear housing off, filed down the grooves, and waited for day off. That way I could just take it apart and put it back together w/out the delay of filing the grooves.

 

The only new part I installed was the Duty C - I didn't mess w/the plates. In my case the Duty C wasn't bad (the FWD fuse still worked) but I didn't want to have to go back in there to fix it again.

 

I'm no mechanic, but it wasn't too difficult.

 

It fixed the delay 100% and the TB about 95%.

 

TD

Great advice here folks. Subscribing in case I have to do this on my next wagon, and will be easier to find again.

When we first got it, my mom's 98 outback had really bad torque bind, but it went away with the FWD fuse in. I drained and filled the fluid, drove lots of figure 8's on dry pavement, and drained filled and ran it a couple more times. It's been 30k miles since then and no problems. ATF is subjected to a lot of shearing forces in the torque converter and a lot of friction between clutch plates, pressure between gears and lots of heat. The fluid wears out over time, no one ever changes it, and so it no longer lets the clutch plates do progressive engagement so you get bind.

Gary

Do you have any clue why changing the fluid could change the symptoms??

i have only guesses. mostly that folks never think about ATF changes. if you buy a used car, chances are good the fluid has rarely, if ever, been changed. many on here probably don't even change it that often. ATF has a long to-do list: it's a coolant, hydraulic fluid, and lubricant. most machinery get separate fluids for all of that...not the transmission. one fluid does it all. granted it doesn't have combustion to deal with so it doesn't need changed like oil but it's still getting used and abused and degrades over time. makes complete sense to me that fresh fluid can do the guts some good, including the rear transfer clutches.

 

but more importantly than guesses, ignore all of that, I have actually done it and so have others. We're not just making this up, I mean I'm extremely unbelievably busy, my time is valuable, i'm highly productive and do not need to waste time. Not all of us sit around sipping Rooibis Chai Tea from our Lazy Boy making random suggestions based on academia....some of us have actually have experience too! :lol:

 

this is really simple, if your duty c is working (FWD fuse works) properly:

 

1. fluid changes and at least 30 miles of driving with lots of turning to free it up (i fixed one this summer - took about 30 miles and countless circles on dry pavement - if you're worried someone might call the cops on you, then you're doing it right!!!!!).

if that doesn't work:

2. the GM LSD additive will fix it (fixed one like that this summer too)

 

Done deal, no need to open the trans.

Edited October 29, 200916 yr by grossgary

96 legacy 4eat with torque bind and likely bad duty c (flashing AT temp light, FWD fuse does not help.

 

I removed the drive shaft until I have time and $$ to fix.

 

My question is: In my scenario with a bad duty c and 50/50 AWD, am I OK without the rear shaft? If so, for how long? My thinking is this should be fine because the trans should not be trying to alter the front to back torque ratio because of the inoperable solenoid.

 

Am I all wet?

Fluid is not going to fix it, you have to dremmel the surfaces (on pics) to get them smooth. That's the only thing that worked for me.

My question is: In my scenario with a bad duty c and 50/50 AWD, am I OK without the rear shaft? If so, for how long?

benign, you're fine indefinitely. it's not going to do any more damage than is already there.

 

whether you fix it now or in 10 years you're going to need the solenoid an clutch work, not a big deal.