AkWoody Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I have an 87' Wagon GL-10 2 BBL w/ PS (no A/C) and want to know what emissions garbage I can take off the carb/intake. Every time I open the hood another hose is broken or cracked and since most of them are no longer in production I want to strip it down to bare bones and still run OK. I know about the Redline Carb conversion that is available but not interested in spending $325 and getting stuck with a manual choke (if you have P/S you have 2 options- manual choke and P/S or Electric Choke and no P/S) or spending the $325 at all when my carb is fine. Anyone done this or know of a resource to help me out???? THANKS!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkWoody Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Oh ya, 5speed manual with 4 WD hi/low and hill hold if that narrows it down too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 There really isn't anything that you can easily remove as there aren't many "emissions" systems in the first place. The Air Injection System is about the only emissions related system and it's entirely passive - doesn't have any vacuum hoses. You can remove the reed valve(s), cut the ends off the pipe and weld them shut to block the passages in the exhaust ports under the heads. The Hitachi carb is designed to have it's air-corrector's metered through valves and duty-solenoid's mounted external to the carb. All the vacuum lines and hoses are running these ports and you will comprimise the carb's efficiency by messing with how it's controlled. You don't want to mess with any of this stuff till you understand it and how it works. You'll never make it run right if you don't. I don't have the time to go into it but there are old posts on the board by myself about how to strip down the Hitachi's properly. They are horrific carbs though and should all go to the trash compactor. You will not regret a Weber or SPFI conversion. And you absolutely CAN install a Weber with the power steering. I've done it twice to EA82's and many, many other people have as well. You do have two options, but they aren't the two you listed. You have to keep an open mind...... 1. Install the carb backwards. The only changes needed to make this work are to move the fuel supply hose barb to the other side or lengthen the hose and then to loop the throttle cable - which is done all the time on the MPFI engines so you can find throttle cables to do this, or.... 2. Peen a dent in the power steering reservoir to clear the choke. This is my prefered method as it's the simplest and quickest. I use the plastic spacer from the Hitachi under the EA82 manifold adaptor to gain a bit of height and then dent in the reservoir with a ball-peen hammer and paint the area with semi-gloss black. The reservoir is removeable from the pump and sealed with an o-ring so even if you screw it up (I don't see how you could) then just get another. It's never been an issue on the one's I've installed. You can also go with a DGV-5A and a manual choke - which in my opinion is nicer anyway. It's easier to control and never requires adjustment. I have a 1960's Weber I rebuilt on my hatch with a manual choke and I love it. Perfect choke adjustment every time - no adjustment each season as with the electric's. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkWoody Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 Just put my Weber 32/36 on today and rewired the Fuel Pump, Dang Controller unit. Weber runs awesome!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjamachine Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 can you pass CA smog with a weber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 can you pass CA smog with a weber? Not to my knowledge. The Weber is not a DOT approved carb and as such is not technically legal to run except for off-road and racing use. They surely are not legal in CA. Now, if one were to modify the Hitachi's airbox to fit a Weber and it was all hidden down under there with all the emissions systems in place and properly working as well as tuned to give good exhaust numbers - I doubt they would catch it. I'm 100% certain I could do it. But I've also installed dozens of Weber's and I know each and every existing system and how to hook it up properly. It's no small job for the uninitiated. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantomcrooner Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) No, you can not pass CA emissions with a Weber, unless you hide it. Mine was a fuel injected car, so you can make it look like it still is as long as the smog guy doesn't start poking around at stuff. Edited January 7, 2010 by phantomcrooner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) the smog guy the smog guy you take your tampered-with CA car to will decide exactly how big a deal to make out of this stuff and they usually just instantly refer you to the CA BAR as soon as they see tampered-with/modified parts. i have a buddy that's a smog tech in Denair, CA. he has told me stories of ricers trying to sneak mods through there that would make you laugh till your eyes oozed from your head. his protocol is to refuse service and refer those customers to the BAR. i know from plenty of first hand experience that some of them actually do the visual inspection like they're supposed to and under those circumstances i doubt that any amount of "oem camo" would get a weber under the radar. fact is some guys get lucky and some don't - makes it a real crapshoot to play the emissions game in CA. Edited January 8, 2010 by mountaingoatgruff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantomcrooner Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 That's the beauty of owning property and doing business in Oregon. My car is registered there since i don't have a permanent CA address, until i do my 2.2 swap. I have a business in California, but its run from wherever my pc happens to be. And i have a Weber with a nice shiny Air cleaner on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 You are right - a sharp emissions guy could catch it. The EA82's are setup such that if a guy were really careful about how he built the modified airbox then the carb would be basically entirely hidden under it. Done right, with the right application of oil-mist and a drive down an unimproved road to coat the engine in dust - chances are they wouldn't think to look. I know a bit about psychology, and if I were doing their job I would be looking at the person just as much as at the car. An EA82 is a pretty low profile machine to begin with, but if you add some dirt and grime, and dress appropriately you could be pretty confident that they would judge you to not be sophisticated enough to have hidden something like a Weber carb under all that mess. It's all in the presentation and there's just as much of that in how YOU talk, and how YOU look, as there is in the car itself. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Also what would help hide a Weber, along with a modded stock airbox, would be to find a cold weather package, they had a block heater and a plastic shield that covers the front of the carb completely -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 i've had a hell of a time with smog inspections and BAR referees since getting into my SPFI retrofit. if i'd have known then what i do now i'd have never wasted time retrofitting SPFI to my EA81 and i'd have gone straight to EJ's. emissions laws in CA state that you can do an engine swap under 2 conditions: 1. the retrofitted engine must be of equal or greater displacement than the original 2. the retrofitted engine must have all emissions related equipment intact and functional according to the design of the vehicle from which it came upgrading a vehicle's fuel delivery system is illegal in CA unless its part of an engine swap so by the letter of the law retrofitting SPFI or a Weber is illegal whereas an EJ swap is perfectly acceptable. to get my SPFI retrofit inspected by BAR i had to totally b.s. the ref about the differences between EA81's & EA82's and the factory options of these engines as a way of blurring the fact that i'm trying to get them to let me break CA law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Yeah - that is unfortunate about the SPFI swap in CA. What sucks the most is that you are actually *improving* the economy and emissions of the EA81 by doing it but according to the letter of the law you aren't allowed to - it's as if the law assumes that all modifications done to produce better power/economy/reliabilty are automatically going to comprimise emissions. That simply isn't the case though - I would imagine the GM guys feel the same way about not being able to put TBI on their carbed 350 SB. Yet another reason I'm about to aquire a '69 GMC 3/4 ton..... it's well outside of the testing window. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Yeah - that is unfortunate about the SPFI swap in CA. What sucks the most is that you are actually *improving* the economy and emissions of the EA81 by doing it but according to the letter of the law you aren't allowed to - it's as if the law assumes that all modifications done to produce better power/economy/reliabilty are automatically going to comprimise emissions. That simply isn't the case though - I would imagine the GM guys feel the same way about not being able to put TBI on their carbed 350 SB. Yet another reason I'm about to aquire a '69 GMC 3/4 ton..... it's well outside of the testing window. GD totally correct. my carb was shot and to get it to pass smog would have been a nightmare. the fact is though, they don't care about what's right/wrong, good for the environment, etc. CA emissions laws are written with ONE purpose in mind: to force consumers to spend money (particularly on state services and/or new cars) my 83 wagon with a d/r 4 speed and factory carb'ed EA81 got about 22-24mpg average. my 84 hatch with a shot d/r 4 speed and SPFI EA81 got about 28-30mpg average. i can't wait to see what my mileage is going to be like with my brat now that it has a d/r 5speed and SPFI EA81. if CA won't pass my brat i guess i'll finally be forced to make good on my threats to leave....i've only been trying for years.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperchargedRS Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Or you can just not deal with CA emissions period. A state is like a business, if they dont give you a good deal take your money else where. Also if you had a stock looking loyale that just had a different carb, I'm sure you could find some village idiot to smog it, people in CA dont view a GL as a racer and it will not be under the microscope like a civic. Heck just get the engine really dirty and they probably just do a visual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantomcrooner Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I had my cars emissions checked about a year and a half ago by a guy who owned a smog shop and owed me money. He tested it as an out of state car and it passed emissions with the weber, but that is also when he told me that i would have to put all the FI stuff back on it to register it in CA. I ran a smog exempt 1970 Ford 1/2 ton pickup for years in CA. It had a 429 Cobra Jet w/ Edelbrock intake and carb, duel exhaust and two 6" long glass packs. 425hp, 475 ft lbs of torque, with a 3 speed and 2.75 rearend gear ratio. I could burn rubber at the line and topped out at 130 mph. My wife nicknamed it 'The Millennium Falcon', the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy. I had to totally beef up the suspension and weld chain to the frame and bolt it to the engine to keep from tearing motor mounts. I miss that truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoatgruff Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Or you can just not deal with CA emissions period. A state is like a business, if they dont give you a good deal take your money else where. huh? Also if you had a stock looking loyale that just had a different carb, I'm sure you could find some village idiot to smog it, people in CA dont view a GL as a racer and it will not be under the microscope like a civic. Heck just get the engine really dirty and they probably just do a visual. in a village, yeah - find a podunk smog man and thank yourself for living there. in the cities where smog is a big deal - i'll believe it when i see it. remember, in ca your vehicle is supposed to be inspected in the county its registered in and different counties maintain different levels of smog nazi fascism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akc Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 WOW I was looking at a job in CA. in WA I don't even have to do emmissions.. (Rural area)..I was looking at the DMV web site and I think the only car I could move would be the 65 dart and the 52 dodge as all the others have been modified to much ......or would not pass emissions.maybe I will just stay here.No wonder everone moved to WA from CA of course they are bringing there politics with them.... soon we will have it bad too. I lived in CA in the 90's ...( I was born in WA)we could not get any out of state vehicle we had passed.. we ended up to get a newer car and mess with it till it passed..of course we were lucky we found a good inspector that told us tricks to get the car passed,,,,, (small town grass valley CA) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantomcrooner Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Back in 2001 I bought a new Chevy Cavalier and you couldn't have a cold air intake, which is really lame. I was able to plumb 3" pipe through the stock air box and under the drivers side fender, then out the front where i had a scoop that I put behind an opening in the grill. It made a noticeable difference in performance. I have had it smoged several times without any trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blownchevelle503 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 ok so for those trying to pass deq in any area, if you buy a better aftermarket carb, why don't you slap the new carb on, tune it. then before you go through deq couldn't you throw the old one back on, test it, then go home and put the tuned new one back on? same thing with a cai (cold air intake) right? I don't know much about deq, I live in salem, or so we don't have to deal with deq. my step dad told me that the way he used to pass with his vehicles, is he would turn his distributor til the vehicle barely ran, take it through deq, pass, then re-time it in the parking lot, and drive off. I'm sure he never had an aftermarket carb, fuel delivery conversion, engine swap, or a cold air intake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 It's easy to pass DEQ here in OR with any carb. 1/2 tank of denatured alcohol, retard timing to about 2 to 4 degrees BTDC. Just about any engine should pass with that combo as long as it goes down the road. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperchargedRS Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 huh? in a village, yeah - find a podunk smog man and thank yourself for living there. in the cities where smog is a big deal - i'll believe it when i see it. remember, in ca your vehicle is supposed to be inspected in the county its registered in and different counties maintain different levels of smog nazi fascism. I am talking about the cities, and things are not always what they are supposed to be, ya know! I have vehicles registered all over the place (and for different reasons), sometimes it works out in my favor not having to deal with emissions (though I am sure that the readings from my tailpipes are more then OK). I have been asked why xx vehicle is registered in xx and I just say that is where the vehicle is based and it's used for business, end of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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