Psyko Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 If you don't want to read through the history of my issue, skip the next four paragraphs. Yesterday I was driving my Brat and it just suddenly stopped running. I popped the hood and checked spark. None. Got a ride to my parts car, pulled the coil, put it in and an hour twenty I was back on the road. Fast forward 9 hours and 70 miles and it does it again. Luckily I was close to home, so, despite finding it highly unlikely I put a second bad coil in, I walked home, grabbed the coil, from my XT6, and put it in. Nothing. Figured it's 1:30 am, cold and I'm tired. I'd deal with it in the morning. Went out this morning and it fired right up. Tested the other two coils and they worked just fine too. Started home and it died. No spark. Tested the other two coils and they didn't work. Unless they're all in on the same little (rather unfunny) joke, it's not a coil problem. Eventually my attention turns to the pink ignition connector. Both halves are melted and, in order to "unplug" it, I have to cut the thing up. I pulled/cut the male end of the connectors out of the pink plug (left the female end together) and stuck them straight into the female connector. Nothing. Sat there for about 40 minutes tinkering with them and, after one fateful attempt at plugging them in, it fired up and I drove home. So, the big question is, could that pink ignition connector melting cause my coil to stop sparking? Or, while I was tinkering with that stupid thing, did my car just happen to mend itself elsewhere? Oh, and does anybody have a parts car they can pull both halves of the pink connector from? Mine is definitely toast (haha, a pun :-p). (Huge thanks to Rob for his patience with men and what/where advice on testing!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I would suspect a bad connection for the pickup module in the disty, or a bad module itself. Also, I had an issue of "no spark" in my '85 BRAT awhile back. After a bit of checking things out. I found that the magnet under the "C" shaped piece in the disty had broken into quite a few pieces. Swapped in another magnet from a junk disty and she's been running fine ever since. Had simular issue then. It started, ran for a few minutes, then died and wouldn't re-start. After a few minutes, it did start back up. But I wasn't willing to attempt the 32 mile drive home with it. Left it at the shop and caught a ride with my Son. Made repairs the next day during lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbeerd Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 man thats frustrating when stuff like that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 My intuition says you didn't find the culprit. I hope I am wrong. Why did the ignition connector melt? This may be the obvious symptom of what is really wrong with it. Did that connector fall onto a hot manifold, or did it get hit with way too much current? Dos it have an ignition amplifier transistor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyko Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 I would suspect a bad connection for the pickup module in the disty, or a bad module itself. Also, I had an issue of "no spark" in my '85 BRAT awhile back. After a bit of checking things out. I found that the magnet under the "C" shaped piece in the disty had broken into quite a few pieces. Swapped in another magnet from a junk disty and she's been running fine ever since. Had simular issue then. It started, ran for a few minutes, then died and wouldn't re-start. After a few minutes, it did start back up. But I wasn't willing to attempt the 32 mile drive home with it. Left it at the shop and caught a ride with my Son. Made repairs the next day during lunch. Are these the wires, to the pickup module, you were talking about? Would a bad connection there really prevent the coil from sparking at all? My intuition says you didn't find the culprit. I hope I am wrong. Why did the ignition connector melt? This may be the obvious symptom of what is really wrong with it. Did that connector fall onto a hot manifold, or did it get hit with way too much current? Dos it have an ignition amplifier transistor? I'm not thinking I found it either. The ignition connector melted due to some sort of current issue with the main +12(?)V feed. It's inside the cabin, so it didn't get too hot from an external source. Amplifier transistor? No idea what/where that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Briggs, bypass that connection and the problem will be solved. The plastic melts causing a bad connection. Take the wires out of that connector and reconnect them with good ends. I had the same thing happen only in my case it would not shut off. Redid the connection and never had problems again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 What is on the other end of those wires? Is it fried, too? Or did something get stuck on, causing lots of current to flow for too long in those wires? And bad pick-up connections will cause the sparks to stop. Completely. Does the pick-up cause the current to flow in the coil, or does it interrupt it? It triggers the amplifier transistor some how, but I am not sure if it turns off or on to make a spark. In the old days, with points, the current was interrupted to make a spark. Is that still the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyko Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 Briggs, bypass that connection and the problem will be solved. The plastic melts causing a bad connection. Take the wires out of that connector and reconnect them with good ends. I had the same thing happen only in my case it would not shut off. Redid the connection and never had problems again. Righto. Picked up some bullet connectors today and just put them in. It fired right up. Going to be a bit before it regains my trust though. What is on the other end of those wires? Is it fried, too? Or did something get stuck on, causing lots of current to flow for too long in those wires? And bad pick-up connections will cause the sparks to stop. Completely. Does the pick-up cause the current to flow in the coil, or does it interrupt it? It triggers the amplifier transistor some how, but I am not sure if it turns off or on to make a spark. In the old days, with points, the current was interrupted to make a spark. Is that still the case? One end goes to wiring harness lala land and the other goes to the ignition switch. As for the rest of what you said... Uh... I don't know. :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyko Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Well, went out and it didn't want to start. Didn't check for spark this time. Just don't have the patience to deal with it and the rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one eye Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I have the same thing going on with my Brat, Everytime you swap out the coils your good. I am on the third one........... in three days. I cant figure out what it is, I swapped the dist. alt. and even put a red fusable link in the red area instead of a green one. I can't figure out why it keeps doing it, I havn't had this one poop out on me yet but I'm a little scared to go out on a trip with it. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyko Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 I have the same thing going on with my Brat, Everytime you swap out the coils your good. I am on the third one........... in three days. I cant figure out what it is, I swapped the dist. alt. and even put a red fusable link in the red area instead of a green one. I can't figure out why it keeps doing it, I havn't had this one poop out on me yet but I'm a little scared to go out on a trip with it. Jeff Dang, I'm sorry to hear that. This is really a demoralizing problem. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I was talking to Rob, check the modules in the disty. Could be that everytime you change out the coils that you are improving the connections there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobywagon Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Might also check the pickup inside the disty. Mostly, you'll want to look at the gaps between the pickup and reluctor. If the gap is too wide, pickup won't see the reluctor. It can be an intermittent failure because there's a bit of slop in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Might also check the pickup inside the disty. Mostly, you'll want to look at the gaps between the pickup and reluctor. If the gap is too wide, pickup won't see the reluctor. It can be an intermittent failure because there's a bit of slop in there. Oh hell, I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier. Slop=bad bushing. Check shaft play. It could also be causing spikes if it contacts. Could explain the over-heated wires and connector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyko Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 (edited) Slop, eh? Edited December 15, 2009 by Psyko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobaru_91 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I had a very simular problem with an old 77 chevy pick-up last month...new pick-up coil in the distributor and havn't had the probllem sence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Slop, eh? Oh yeah, that is it! I think I still have a couple bushings at home. I will check and let Rob know. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyko Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Rob just took off. I'm sure he'll fill you in on his complete impressions, but, in short, he's thinking the module may be bad. Also, the wires running to the module need to be cleaned up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Rob just took off. I'm sure he'll fill you in on his complete impressions, but, in short, he's thinking the module may be bad. Also, the wires running to the module need to be cleaned up. It may very well be bad. But until you replace the bushing you run the risk of killing another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 (edited) If the connector took enough current to look like that, what do the ignition switch contacts look like? Could be burnt and flaky - pun intended! Try a new switch, or jumper them to bypass the switch, to see if that results in reliable running. Oops, missed the stuff on the module and bushings. Still worth a look. How much slop is there in the bushings? The photo doesn't really show very much. Edited December 15, 2009 by robm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 If the connector took enough current to look like that, what do the ignition switch contacts look like? Could be burnt and flaky - pun intended! Try a new switch, or jumper them to bypass the switch, to see if that results in reliable running. Oops, missed the stuff on the module and bushings. Still worth a look. How much slop is there in the bushings? The photo doesn't really show very much. That's a video. There is a lot of slop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobywagon Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Wow...go me. Did I call that or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyko Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Wow...go me. Did I call that or what? I hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobywagon Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Sorry, man. I'm just kinda having a next level sort of moment. That never happens for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Sorry, man. I'm just kinda having a next level sort of moment. That never happens for me. No, good job. As soon as you said slop I remembered what the problem probably was gonna be. Been a long time since I messed with these. I didn't find the bushings last night Briggs. I'll look some more tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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