Dealership trouble

[Scoobywagon]

Ok, folks...

 

I'm going to try very hard to not throw anyone under any buses. I've run into some trouble with the dealership I bought my wife's Forester.

 

We bought the car in January of last year. At the time, I told them I'd buy the car so long as there was some evidence that the head gaskets had been dealt with. They said no problem, they'd look into it. When they inspected the car, they found coolant snail tracks on the heads and decided that, in fact, the gaskets were in the initial stages of failure. They said they would take care of it under warranty with Subaru. Great. Problem solved.

 

Fast forward to last week. Car has almost 160k and I was getting nervous about the timing belt because that was NOT done originally. So I scheduled an appointment with the Subaru dealership nearest me. I was going to have them do the timing belt, idler, tensioner and water pump. They got it up on the lift and found oil leaking out of the head gaskets . Grabbed the sniffer and found exhaust gases in the coolant. Head gaskets are fried. I called the dealership that originally did the work and had them fax over their invoice for the work they did. It does, in fact, show that head gaskets were done. However, it does NOT show that any machine work was done. It looks as though the heads were simply pulled off, new gaskets put on, heads reinstalled. I'm hardly an expert, but not machining the heads sounds like a recipe for problems. I'm currently waiting for their GM to call me back and let me know what, if anything, they will do about this.

 

I'll keep this updated for those who may be interested. Once everything gets settled out, I'll post up the dealerships involved as well as the outcome.

[The Dude]

What model year Forester? How many miles since the head gasket replacement? Right off the bat, I would like to assure myself that the replacement was actually done. Sometimes, unintentional errors happen.

A head gasket replacement should leave a number of tell-tale signs. In any event, I would argue that a major repair, like a head gasket repair, should hold for a reasonable period of time. The discussion is likely to revolve around the definition of "reasonable". Beware the ever popular "you or your wife musta overheated the engine" gambit. My personal favorite is "your wife musta run the engine out of coolant and was afraid to tell ya". Some of these service managers should have been stand-up comedians instead. Hopefully, you're dealing with an honest shop and some kind of accomodation will be made for you. Good luck.

Edited May 27, 2010 by The Dude

[NoahDL88]

OP, machine work is only necessary if the heads are warped. If its been less than a year and you've gone less than say maybe 10 thousand miles it may be under the repair warranty period. I don't remember mileage, but when I worked at a dealer all of our repairs were warranted for one year.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Qman

[idosubaru]

Must be a SOHC so it's a 99+ model. Great feedback Noah, I was wondering. I would think they have some kind of repair warranty and if you're outside of that then I would consider any reimbursement above, beyond, and very courteous. I'd be frustrated too, but sometimes I'm in that 1% and get hosed.

 

Machining isn't required, but it is a really good idea and I typically do it and recommend it. That request, and the timing belt, should have probably been asked for at the time rather than after the fact. Not sure if "required machining" is opinion or quantitative? Even still, if it's out of the warranty period....?

 

"Throwing under the bus", sounds like you're ready to escalate... calm and proceed slowly and calmly helps them hear you. Hopefully something will be worked out.

Edited May 27, 2010 by grossgary

[Fairtax4me]

That's pretty much standard protocol at any dealer. They will check the heads, and if they come up within spec they put them back on.

 

As a matter of fact I think you wold be hard pressed to find ANY shop that will have the heads milled if they are in spec, unless you specifically ask them to.

 

Being such a short time later, one would hope that the dealer will be willing to at least help pay for the needed repairs. Just keep patient when you deal with them and they should be much more willing.

[GeneralDisorder]

Machine work may or may not be neccesary. If the heads are not warped or pitted then there is no cause to resurface them. Proper *cleaning* would still be required to insure the gaskets adhere to the sufaces of the heads and block. But there is no reason to have surface grinding done to a head unless it is severely pitted and damaged or is actually warped and needs to be trued up.

 

Now - *assuming* they didn't do a surfacing of the heads. *I* would be asking to see their machinists straight edge and gauges that they used to determine the heads were not warped and did not require a surfacing job. I would be willing to bet they don't even have one . And no - you can't use any old metal ruler either. If they pull out a machinists *square* I would laugh them right out of the shop. You need a truely flat, ground surface to check for warpage. Either a surface plate and height gauge, or at the least a straight edge and feeler gauges.

 

If you know what the job entails and what they *should* have done, you can entrap them pretty easily. Chances are they never even checked them.

 

GD

[svxpert]

wait, am i missing something here? you were more worried about the headgasket leaking externally rather then a timing belt that was (lets just say 30,000 miles overdue) unless you put 60,000 miles on the car after you bought it. (which is possible)

[Scoobywagon]

Well, they're effing me over. The warranty is 12 months, 12,000 miles. I'm way past any of that and they aren't working with me. The dealership is Mike Scarff Subaru in Auburn. I'm going to end up having the head gaskets re-done. I'm very disappointed in the way they are handling this.

 

I had a very good experience on the sales side of things, but their service department leave a LOT to be desired.

[The Dude]

Well, they're effing me over. The warranty is 12 months, 12,000 miles. I'm way past any of that and they aren't working with me. The dealership is Mike Scarff Subaru in Auburn. I'm going to end up having the head gaskets re-done. I'm very disappointed in the way they are handling this.

 

I had a very good experience on the sales side of things, but their service department leave a LOT to be desired.

 

 

It all depends how far you would like to take this thing. I usually enjoy taking it to the mat. Everything depends on Washington State law. Yes, your warranty is over. But if you can prove that the job wasn't done right in the first place, you might have a two year window to sue in small claims court. .

Edited May 29, 2010 by The Dude

[Subarupusher]

Just to clarify, you serviced your Subaru over in Bremerton (technically the dealership is in Gorst) but you bought it over in Auburn? Scarff did the original repair on the gaskets?

 

I have had the opposite experience with Scarff. They are not so good on the sales side (we quit buying there back in 1996) but are excellent in the service department. We tried an independent for a few years but Scarff won us back with quality work and only recommending service that was neccessary.

 

I see this as more of a sales issue and the service department cannot honor spoken promises about a warranty. So don't throw the mechs under the bus when it is the owner and salesman that you have an issue with.

 

If I were in your situation during the sale and I had a bad feeling about the head gasket, I would have demanded an extended warranty to close the sale. The problem is dealers will not usually do this. They will reduce the price a little and move on to the next person that does not do their homework when checking out the car.