Scotty1419 Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 hi, recently my 1998 legacy gt limited skipped time and would not start. i put it back in time and still nothing.. from what ive read i have bent my valves and will have to have a valve job done.. i am wondering how hard of a job this would be to do by myself.. or if i should just give in and pay the 1,000$ quote and take it to the mechanic to do it..? and would i have to pull my engine out to do this or would i be able to jsut remove the heads and fix it? Thanks, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 Hi Scott, welcome to USMB. Ewwww, that doesn't sound good. When you "put it back in time" did you use the correct marks? And what do you mean by "still nothing"--did it crank but not fire? Or will it not turn over at all? Lots of info on here about heads/head gaskets/valve problems--guess it's time to do some searching! General feeling is that it's best to pull the engine for head work. Others more knowledgable will chime in. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted August 19, 2010 Author Share Posted August 19, 2010 Hi Olnick, Thanks for your reply sir.. Yes it cranked but it didnt start, and ever since this happened when i try to start it it makes this awful noise not the usual starter noise it makes.. and so this does mean that i will most definetly need to pull out the engine from the car? thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 when i try to start it it makes this awful noise not the usual starter noise it makes.. and so this does mean that i will most definetly need to pull out the engine from the car? thanks again what kind of noise? this is very strange. please describe what happened when it "skipped" time. no it is not time to pull the engine yet. we don't even know what the problem is yet. the most common cause of a 'no start' condition after a timing belt job is if you used the wrong timing marks. check out the timing belt links, especially the one with pics in my signature just below. but, the weird noise may mean something else is wrong. more info please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted August 20, 2010 Author Share Posted August 20, 2010 well the car just like stalled while i was driving it it had no power.. i popped the hood and the ac drivebelt was completely frayed and disintigrated.. the alternator drivebelt was also slightly frayed and wrapped up in the crankshaft pulley.. i replaced the alternator drivebelt and tryed starting it and it made the starter noise only it was louder.. it had like a loud whirring noise and it definetly wasnt the normal noise.. i cant really explain the noise other than a unusually loud starting noise.. i may be able to record it. but when i opened up the timing covers i found that the crankshaft sprocket was definetly out of time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 What's the condition of your harmonic balancer (crankshaft pulley)? Is it wobbling? How about the key and slot on your crankshaft snout? Did your timing belt look okay when you opened up the front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted August 20, 2010 Author Share Posted August 20, 2010 well the crank pulley (harmonic balancer) is fine as far as the key and everything but it broke in two pieces.. there is a rubber insulator inbetween the two pieces on the pulley and when i took the pulley off the rubber insulator came off and seperated it into two peices.. one piece with the grooves that the drivebelts go on and the other piece with the 22 mm nut u take off.. so are you saying that the crank pulley has to be on in order to start the car and test it??? and my timing belt is fine no cracks or anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eppoh Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 I just finished a job on a car that had this same problem. The tensioner for the AC belt had rusted and broke. The AC belt rubbed through the timing cover and kicked the timing belt off with the engine running. The valves crashed and all were bent. We tried putting a belt back on it, but no start, and no compression. So, we pulled the heads, sent them to a machine shop along with new valves and valve seals, which they installed, as well as surfacing the heads, and checking the valve guides and seats. They charged me 350 for that. Put new head gaskets, seal, belts, water pump, idlers and tensioner. In all I have about 1000 dollars in parts and machine shop costs. That is doing the labor myself. I did it with the engine in the car. Next time I will pull it out, though. This was on a 2.2 sohc. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 (edited) You're right, it should test run without the crank pulley--which would indicate a problem with the timing/timing belt or (gasp!) internally. Must've been one heck of a hit to do all that pulley and accessory belt damage when it skipped timing. Did you check the entire length of the timing belt for missing or torn teeth? Did you check the condition of the tensioner & idlers and the water pump? When you re-set the timing did you use the hash marks (not the arrows)? Did the crank & cam sensors appear to be okay and in place? How about the cams, did you try turning them by hand to see if you could feel any problems? (Edit: DO NOT attempt to turn the cams by hand!) That's all I can think of at the moment. Edited August 20, 2010 by Olnick Correction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eppoh Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 I doubt he would "feel"any problem with the cams. I turned mine by hand and felt nothing significant. Every exhaust valve was bent 30 degrees and would not close. All the intake valves were bent to a much lesser degree. Easiest way to convince himself is to remove and reinstall the T belt at the proper mark and do a compression test. He will certainly find low or no compression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svxpert Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 How about the cams, did you try turning them by hand to see if you could feel any problems? you cant just "turn" the cams. if he does, and the pistons arent in the correct spot, he will bend valves. lets not give bad info out here and try to help this guy out. how was the crank sproket out of time? what did you do to put it in time in relation to the cams? i wouldnt attempt to start it anymore without some good help. all you will do is shatter a piston or damage a cam pulley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 I stand corrected and I do apologize--thanks for catching that svxpert. Really, I should keep my nose out of dual-cam interference engines! But clarify some things for me: 1) If the crank is in the "correct" position for timing, per the hash mark on the reluctor, are the pistons not clear of interference with the valves? And 2) Could you really bend valves with hand pressure on a cam pulley? Again, my apologies for bad info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Which marks were used to determine that it was out of time to begin with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted August 31, 2010 Author Share Posted August 31, 2010 thanks for all the input guys.. i have been out of town for the week and just now got back in.. the crankshaft marks on the crankshaft sprocket were the ones that were out of time.. I am considering purchasing a 900$ remanufactured ej25 ebay engine for my car.. considering that im looking at atleast 900$ to do this valve job even myself when i consider all that i must purchase. head gaskets new crank pulley new timing belt kit probably tb tensioner gaskets for manifolds and valve cover gaskets. valves and the actual valve job itself.. i just cant see spending all that money when i could buy a 30k mile jdm engine off ebay? am i wrong in this assumption or what?? and also im told that a 2.2 swap is almost a plug n play deal.. and with a 2.2 its a non interference so i would never have this problem again.. Thanks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 thanks for all the input guys.. i have been out of town for the week and just now got back in.. the crankshaft marks on the crankshaft sprocket were the ones that were out of time.. I am considering purchasing a 900$ remanufactured ej25 ebay engine for my car.. considering that im looking at atleast 900$ to do this valve job even myself when i consider all that i must purchase. head gaskets new crank pulley new timing belt kit probably tb tensioner gaskets for manifolds and valve cover gaskets. valves and the actual valve job itself.. i just cant see spending all that money when i could buy a 30k mile jdm engine off ebay? am i wrong in this assumption or what?? and also im told that a 2.2 swap is almost a plug n play deal.. and with a 2.2 its a non interference so i would never have this problem again.. Thanks.. JDM take out and Remanufactured are NOT the same. You are better off to work on what you got. I think the job can be done for less than $600 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 +1 to what Gloyale said. A properly remanufactured engine is going to cost a lot more than $900. Take a look at CCR's site for more info: http://www.ccrengines.com/index.html JDM is often not as good as it sounds, at least in my eyes. Study up on them before you jump in. To be safe, any used engine, JDM or pull-and-pay, would need a front end rebuild, re-sealing and tuneup before installing. So be sure to figure that into the cost. An EJ22 is an excellent option, perhaps not to everyone. But I think it's the best engine Subaru ever made! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 I'll send you the info on someone in Bedford that does lots of Suby's. Last time I tried you couldn't get PM's. If you're interested PM me and I'll reply w/contact info for someone in Bedford. I've purchased parts from him in the past. Seems to have a good Subaru business and know how on HG's and 2.2 swaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 If you don't want to go the valve job route, I have two sets of heads and I can get you just the head you need. You don't have to get both heads from me if only one is damaged. I will get you the head complete with the cams and lifters ready to go. If you are interested, let me know and I can get you a shipping quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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