otis Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 like the title says, I screwed up my car, a 2000 Forester with 140k miles. It's at the dealer now. They are saying at a minimum, I need new valves, but, more likely, more. For $1000, they will take apart the engine and tell me how much more pain I have in store. I suppose it didn't help that I tried to keep starting the engine after the pulley failure and having things smash together. Dealer mechanic also said he could only turn the crank so far without hitting "metal." I told him I didn't see the point of spending $1000 to tell me I need thousands of dollars worth of repairs if the car is only worth $2-3k (when running). I told him I'd think about it. I called another indy shop and asked about it and the possibility of just swapping the engine. He was ball parking about 2-3k to replace valves and recommended against getting a new engine. His thought was you don't really know what you're getting when you get these replacement engines. I don't mind spending a little more than what the car is worth to get it running again. THe car is in reasonable shape otherwise. But once I start hitting the $4k repair mark, I start to think that money gets me into some other car options. What are the odds that the repair will go that high? Dealer won't tell me unless I spend the $1000 to pull apart the engine (I don't think they're trying to be crooked, they just can't see what needs to be replaced it seems). Any thoughts or advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Update your profile with a useful location!!! At 140k I'd immediately think independent shop. After we know where you're at someone from here may suggest a shop. I'd probably fix that engine since you know it. If no piston damage valves aren't all that expensive and if they haven't been done you're due for HG's anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 I'm in the Minneapolis area. The car is ok otherwise. In fact I had the timing belt changed ~115k miles when I had to replace the HG for a 2nd time. There are some minor issues I can live with. Just got off with the dealer and he's giving me some estimates ranging from $3700 and up. Of course I realize I'm paying dealer rates. I would love to explore the indy shop route, but my problem is I dont know any. I got a couple of recomendations from friends, but they're not interested in doing it. The dealer just priced himself out as an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Now that folks see where you're at perhaps some folks will have other idea's for you over the weekend. It's still unusual to have 2 sets of HG's by 140k. WHo did that work? Because this is really the same - other than sending the heads out. I can't see how this would cost more than 2k at an independent shop as a ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 basically what you are looking at is the head gasket job, the timing belt job plus the water pump and timing pulleys not replaced last time, and some bent valves. just a guess but probably only one side and probably not all of them. so it could be pricey. who did the timing belt.? if it was the dealer i would blame them for the failure. i have a dollar that says it was the toothed timing idler that failed. the dealer should have known to replace it if they are the ones who did the belt. most shops, well a lot of them anyway, including dealers, only replace the idlers if they are making noise.this is not a good practice when the change interval is 105k miles. not replacing it at 115k means it will have to go 220k miles with out failure. that's asking a lot of a bearing that was greased at the factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 $1000 seems very high to me. Essentially all the dealer is going to do is pull the heads. What does this shop charge, $200+ per hour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 Holy moly John! I may owe you a dollar. I don't know which pulley failed, but it was a dealer that did the hg/timing belt work. As for the $1000 to pull apart the engine, that must be par for the course. I don't know what their shop rate is, but eyeballing their price chart for brakes and oil changes, I bet they're pricey. Unfortunately, I think I broke down in an expensive suburb of Minneapolis. I'm asking every one around about Indy shops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Talk to the owner of this place..you won't be jerked around.. http://www.ssisubaruspecialists.com/ an independent subaru only place..they do it all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 Talk to the owner of this place..you won't be jerked around.. http://www.ssisubaruspecialists.com/ an independent subaru only place..they do it all... I talked to the owner and he was very helpful. He's going to sell me a rebuilt engine. If I were in MI, it would be pretty easy for him to do the swap. I ended up hiring the dealer to do the swap. It's more expensive obviously, but it also comes down to not knowing a local shop. All the shops I called just quoted me the standard "shop hours" to do the swap and a lot ended up being more expensive than the dealer. Some were cheaper, even considering I had to pay for another tow, but I decided to bite the bullet and pay extra for the convenience of already having it at the dealer. In the end, I'm paying less than the original dealer "best case scenario" of $3700 but paying $1000 more than what it should have cost to begin with. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) you shouldn't take the ez out on this. I would make the dealer FIX IT FOR FREE for not changing the IDLERS when they did the timing belt. ANY DEALER SHOULD KNOW THIS AND IT'S NEGLEGANCE!!! (as long as you didn't opt out of the idlers) and if said dealer had to do my headgaskets TWICE, I would never go there again. I would take it to ANOTHER DEALER I'm sorry this happened and I hate to see non mechanically oriented people get RAPED by dealers... have a lawyer draw up papers on them. you won't even need to go to court. they will get scared and do it. also get ahold of subaru of america. they don't play with dealers. 1-800-SUBARU3 Edited May 18, 2011 by Ricearu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 you shouldn't take the ez out on this. I would make the dealer FIX IT FOR FREE for not changing the IDLERS when they did the timing belt. ANY DEALER SHOULD KNOW THIS AND IT'S NEGLEGANCE!!! (as long as you didn't opt out of the idlers) and if said dealer had to do my headgaskets TWICE, I would never go there again. I would take it to ANOTHER DEALER I'm sorry this happened and I hate to see non mechanically oriented people get RAPED by dealers... have a lawyer draw up papers on them. you won't even need to go to court. they will get scared and do it. also get ahold of subaru of america. they don't play with dealers. 1-800-SUBARU3 ..its not that easy for the dealers the extract money for the idlers etc when SOA does not clearly support this procedure..it becomes a judgement call by the dealers and a game played out with the consumer...I have mentioned this before of going to 5-6 dealers to ask about what timing belt replacement items are a must do..no mention of idlers..next time if you are in a dealer or two....ask if they have some idlers on the shelf..I bet not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I've bought more cars than you'd think not long after a dealer timing belt job. Probably because they are embarrased at what OEM idlers cost. Every person I've asked said the dealer didn't mention or recommend idlers at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 the dealers around here won't do any timing belts without idlers AND water pump if its belt driven. hell pep boys won't even do it, unless you sign a lengthy waver releasing liability if one of the other parts fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 you shouldn't take the ez out on this. I would make the dealer FIX IT FOR FREE for not changing the IDLERS when they did the timing belt. ANY DEALER SHOULD KNOW THIS AND IT'S NEGLEGANCE!!! (as long as you didn't opt out of the idlers) and if said dealer had to do my headgaskets TWICE, I would never go there again. I would take it to ANOTHER DEALER I'm sorry this happened and I hate to see non mechanically oriented people get RAPED by dealers... have a lawyer draw up papers on them. you won't even need to go to court. they will get scared and do it. also get ahold of subaru of america. they don't play with dealers. 1-800-SUBARU3 you raise a good point but it will be a tough burden on my part to say the dealer is negligent. they did what I asked them to do- change a timing belt. I think they would be a "good" dealer for recommending the idler, but not doing so doesn't make them negligent (just means they're an overpaid bunch of techs and not true "advisors" as they claim.) the challenge then becomes I have to be my own best advocate. sites like this are great, but things fall through the cracks when it comes to me absorbing and processing it all. to be quite honest, I'd love to be ignorant and have the trust to rely on my mechanic to do right. the car is at another dealer (just because it happened to break down by them). I don't trust them to be a good advisor either after their stong recommendation was to pay $1000 to find out how much more it would cost to fix. but what can those of us that are not tight with trusted mechanics do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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